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Instagram account thomas7509 set to private, so much for all the transparency Smiler is bragging about. :rolleyes:
 
Its funny how its the other way around if you're selling something. Then you shouldnt agree to g&s because the buyer could easily say that they never received the right item and claim the money back. I wouldnt sell something to someone g&s that no one could vouch for either! Maybe if Ive seen them around alot and they got a killer collection etc. Btw..go on to "killer customs and midtech maniac" group on Facebook and ask for vouches for yourself and thomas then. You'll probably get alot of vouches for thomas. He's a good guy and probably got one of the best collections in Sweden. But its up to both the buyer and the seller what they are willing to risk. I prefer g&s as much as the next guy if Im buying. Some people dont feel comfortable with that and only sell f&f. Which I get so in thoose cases I usually ask around to see if he's a good guy. Havent been scammed yet. Same thing if I sell stuff. If I dont know of the guy at all, and no one can vouch for him. No way in hell Im selling it g&s. I would rather keep my knife or sell it to someone else. Easy as that.
 
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Smiler said:
I pay f&f myself al the time... i get $2 fee for f&f regardless of amount.
And not like 3-4% with g/s.

I didnt even list the knife for sale.


Sounds like many of you have been scamed or something, i havent yet.
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You continue to miss the point being made: While knowing someone and trust can certainly play a part in doing the deal or not doing the deal, it does not play a part in choosing which PP service(F&F or G&S) to use. PP does this on the honor system for our type of transaction, and you fail. If you are selling an item, the only proper choose is G&S. If you are giving money with nothing expected in return other than a thank you F&F is the proper service. Trusting someone, knowing them , if you want the buyer or seller protection,or are cheap, should not determine which is the proper service to use.
It is not the worst crime in the world, but it is dishonest and those trying to make excuses don't have a leg to stand on.
I have given you the benefit of the doubt on this, but you now make it clear where you stand, and you are wrong.
 
philleee said:
Its funny how its the other way around if you're selling something. Then you shouldnt agree to g&s because the buyer could easily say that they never received the right item and claim the money back. I wouldnt sell something to someone g&s that no one could vouch for either! Maybe if Ive seen them around alot and they got a killer collection etc. Btw..go on to "killer customs and midtech maniac" group on Facebook and ask for vouches for yourself and thomas then. You'll probably get alot of vouches for thomas. He's a good guy and probably got one of the best collections in Sweden. But its up to both the buyer and the seller what they are willing to risk. I prefer g&s as much as the next guy if Im buying. Some people dont feel comfortable with that and only sell f&f. Which I get so in thoose cases I usually ask around to see if he's a good guy. Havent been scammed yet. Same thing if I sell stuff. If I dont know of the guy at all, and no one can vouch for him. No one in hell Im selling it g&s. I would rather keep my knife or sell it to someone else. Easy as that.
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Ignore list keeps growing. Anyone else care to out themselves?
 
philleee said:
Its funny how its the other way around if you're selling something. Then you shouldnt agree to g&s because the buyer could easily say that they never received the right item and claim the money back. I wouldnt sell something to someone g&s that no one could vouch for either! Maybe if Ive seen them around alot and they got a killer collection etc. Btw..go on to "killer customs and midtech maniac" group on Facebook and ask for vouches for yourself and thomas then. You'll probably get alot of vouches for thomas. He's a good guy and probably got one of the best collections in Sweden
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Another one for the ignore list! Or maybe a sock puppet for the first one.

If you sell you can choose signature confirmation, deal with a particular delivery service you trust, have insurance to protect you, etc. There are multiple steps and precautions you're able to take to avoid scams. As a buyer Paypal G&S is your best form of protection. So if a seller wants to claim F&F is how they're protected they're either A. Malicious and planning to scam or B. Too dumb to protect themselves with the multitude of other tools available to them. Either way, hard pass.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Another one for the ignore list! Or maybe a sock puppet for the first one.

If you sell you can choose signature confirmation, deal with a particular delivery service you trust, have insurance to protect you, etc. There are multiple steps and precautions you're able to take to avoid scams. As a buyer Paypal G&S is your best form of protection. So if a seller wants to claim F&F is how they're protected they're either A. Malicious and planning to scam or B. Too dumb to protect themselves with the multitude of other tools available to them. Either way, hard pass.
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Not true. People have been scammed saying that they received the package but that it was a 3$ knife in it.
 
philleee said:
Not true. People have been scammed saying that they received the package but that it was a 3$ knife in it.
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And they have been scammed on both ends of F&F transactions. Where there is a will there is often a way, unless you go through extra steps and precautions.
Still though doesn't justify ripping off PP-ask for a USPS money order if that is your worry. Buyer can make their own determination if they want to comply. Or deal with only those you trust.
 
You guys must have a pretty long ignore list then, haha. I have bought stuff from well known people in the knife community that wouldnt sell unless it was f&f.
 
philleee said:
You guys must have a pretty long ignore list then, haha. I have bought stuff from well known people in the knife community that wouldnt sell unless it was f&f.
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and they were wrong to do so
Many do it since they see others do it, but that doesn't make it right. It is very simple if you put any thought into it.
and I have no ignore list-not needed for F&F. I just won't do the deal that way.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
and they were wrong to do so
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No, I get it. If no one can vouch for u..You havent seen the guy around at all. Why risk loosing something when u can sell it to someone that you know of, or have vouches.

And what with the not right thing to do. Why the hell would I sell something and then risk of being scammed by a unknown "ghost" not a single person can vouch for? Thats stupid if any! Would rather keep my piece or sell it to someone else
 
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philleee said:
No, I get it. If no one can vouch for u..You havent seen the guy around at all. Why risk loosing something when u can sell it to someone that you know of, or have vouches.
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I have sold to many newer members , and was one myself at one point. however if you joined today and want to buy a $850 knife I likely will have reservations. Overall I feel the knife community is very honest, as you can see by the reaction to ripping off PP. They don't like to see any form of dishonesty in their community-rip offs, misrepresentation of items or failing to pay PP their fees.
You either are honest or you aren't. There is no middle ground of sometimes, and still think you are.
 
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Peter Hartwig said:
You continue to miss the point being made: While knowing someone and trust can certainly play a part in doing the deal or not doing the deal, it does not play a part in choosing which PP service(F&F or G&S) to use. PP does this on the honor system for our type of transaction, and you fail. If you are selling an item, the only proper choose is G&S. If you are giving money with nothing expected in return other than a thank you F&F is the proper service. Trusting someone, knowing them , if you want the buyer or seller protection,or are cheap, should not determine which is the proper service to use.
It is not the worst crime in the world, but it is dishonest and those trying to make excuses don't have a leg to stand on.
I have given you the benefit of the doubt on this, but you now make it clear where you stand, and you are wrong.
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What is it you dont understand?

Im the seller il set the rules...

I have no prob with g&s if he can get vouches. No answer why not.
But mabye hes first knife is a $1200 one.
 
Smiler said:
What is it you dont understand?

Im the seller il set the rules...

I have no prob with g&s if he can get vouches. No answer why not.
But mabye hes first knife is a $1200 one.
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What is it you don't understand PP has rules too, and they define the service to use. If you don't trust the guy, don't sell to him, or find an alternative method of Payment(Not PP F&F)
 
Peter Hartwig said:
I have sold to many newer members , and was one myself at one point. however if you joined today and want to buy a $850 knife I likely will have reservations. Overall I feel the knife community is very honest, as you can see by the reaction to ripping
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So I should be sooo honest that I use pp g&s just so they get their fees so I can risk that PP takes my money back as soon as the buyer starts a claim for not getting the correct knife he bought, when it was. Haha..wtf. I dont give a shit about pp fees when it comes to the chance of standing there with no money and no knife. And for me thats usually $+2000 knives. Hell no! No reason to sell it all then.
 
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philleee said:
So I should be sooo honest that I use pp g&s just so they get their fees so I can risk that PP takes my money back as soon as the buyer starts a claim for not getting the correct knife he bought, when it was. Haha..wtf. I dont give a shit about pp fees when it comes to the chance of standing there with no money and no knife. And for me thats usually $+2000 knives. Hell no! No reason to sell it all then.
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If you don't want to abide by PP's rules, just don't use them

It's been explained numerous ways, but it is like talking to a wall. You don't get it because it doesn't benefit you
 
I still say everything I buy online for the most part goes through a PayPal transaction. And there are ALWAYS fees. I wonder when amazon will start asking for “vouches” on its products. Because as it was said earlier someone can manufacture vouchers for themselves. But it’s pretty unlikely someone willing to pay their own PayPal fees is going to screw over a seller.

If anyone else that has vouches and can be “trusted” with goods and services can buy the knife from this guy and I’ll reimburse you and pay the transaction fee haha
 
Peter Hartwig said:
If you don't want to abide by PP's rules, just don't use them

It's been explained numerous ways, but it is like talking to a wall. You don't get it because it doesn't benefit you
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You know what..I even jay walk from time to time. And..hold on to something so you dont faint and hit your head..I even drive faster then the speed limit. Alot! Have I missed that this was a super christian page or something?
 
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