Pen knife, can you define it??

M

MNofUSN

Joined
Apr 1, 2013
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750
Hey y'all,

So im down here in sunny CA & i got snagged the other day be an officer for my tiny case TX toothpick. I was helping a gal open a clam shell package. Officer let me go but said that pen knives are not legal here. from my understanding, what they mean by pen knife is a knife disguised as a pen.
I am aware that some knives are called 'pen knives' because of their size, but does anyone know what the the a pen knife is

other than this
penknife_black.jpg
 
BRL categorizes slipjoints by jack knife and pen knife.

Pen, knife little smaller and fancier than a jack knife.
 
As I understand it, and I could be wrong, a pen knife was originally a small knife used to sharpen quill pens, pencils and the like.

Generally pen knives would just be a small slipjoint folder, something like a 58mm SAK.

A disguised knife, which is what you have there, although it is a knife pen, is not a pen knife.
 
MNofUSN said:
I am aware that some knives are called 'pen knives' because of their size, but does anyone know what the the a pen knife is
Click to expand...

Traditionally, a "pen knife" is a small pocketknife with at least one blade being a small spear point. In the past they were used for sharpening pen quills. A pen knife would be rather small, generally one or two blades. The second blade, if present, was most commonly a larger spear point.
Plenty of knife patterns beside "pen knives" used a pen blade; stockmans, Barlows, whittlers, and many other patterns often contain a pen blade.

Here's a pen knife I received recently from an estate sale:
DSC_4047_zps23337c63.jpg


For a modern example, look at the White Owl knife from Great Eastern Cutlery or the Case Pen Knife. If the pen knife is an equal end, like the White Owl, it's also called a "Senator."

682211-cocobolo-fixed.jpg


Hope that helps!
 
TheAndrew said:
Just curious what city was it?
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I'm wondering this as well, seeing how I'm in CA now. From what I understand of the laws, is that at a state level, you can basically carry any folder. Some cities do have different knife laws though, but I haven't read any around me (up by San Jose/San Fransisco) that outlaw pen knives. And I can't imagine why they'd outlaw pen knives specifically. They're almost the smallest and least intrusive knife possible to carry.

And awesome history lesson everyone, I had no idea that it was a literal "pen" knife.
 
The interesting thing I have noticed is how few LEOs I have spoken to actually know the knife laws in their area. I don't say this as a criticism of them, just that most encounters I've had and experiences I have been told (by LEOs and by citizens interacting with them) are mostly contextualized. In other words, an automatic might technically be illegal but only confiscated in situations the LEO feels are warranted. I have carried blatantly illegal items when hanging out with LEO friends and they don't even say a word of warning. If I piss an LEO off, or if one is having a bad day, or if one wants to squeeze as many citations as possible into a given encounter, then I am likely to receive a different response. Then again, they might be having a good day or have something else to deal with and choose to ignore it, whether they see it as an issue or not.

In summary, I find it is nice to know the law but it is better to be contextually aware, and to know that no one is safe from overextension of the law. Whenever this has happened to me I have just rolled with it, because giving up a possession even when I feel it is being wrongly taken from me is easier than fighting a battle over it. It's kind of like getting mugged by someone with social benefit-of-the-doubt and excellent legal representation. And again, I am not saying LEOs are corrupt or bad, some are and some are not, but in any case they are left to their best judgment and as a result their choices may or may not make sense or seem fair.
 
I'm not sure how a Pen knife is illegal where you are - or were - in SD. Most jurisdictions in CA are okay with small pocket knives.

Unless you were in a place like a court house or sports stadium that specifically bans any and all pocket knives on the premesis, you should be able to carry it without a problem.

~Chris
 
12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses...any ballistic knife...any nunchaku...any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken [ed: "throwing star"]...any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag. [Ed. Note: this is the paragraph covering "what you cannot own at all" - some of it is downright weird. Plastic/ceramic knives that can go through a metal detector are also banned somewhere in PC12020.]
...
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
...
(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
...
25(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.
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If the cop arrested you for that knife, or confiscated it, his supervisor probably would have smacked him on the head for being an idiot.
 
Sounds like you were stopped by a cop who needs a brushing up on the laws.

If the knife is around the size of the small SAK and doesn't lock, I call it a pen knife. I don't think there is a full definition of a pen knife legally speaking.

Or maybe a pen knife is a pen that clicks out a blade instead of an ink cartridge. Yuh nevuh know.
 
That's where the name comes from, yes.
 
A pen knife is a small single spring two blade knife (one blade pivoting on each end) with at least one blade being a pen blade (usually the secondary blade). Small oval equal end knives with two pen blades are pen knives of the Senator pattern.

Camillus Number 41 --- Senator pattern.
Camillus%252041s%2520Closed.JPG

Camillus%252041s%2520Open.JPG
 
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