Pictures: What knife would you show a knife-nut versus average person

Most people I know own cheaper Sogs. However, one guy I work with was slicing open some packages and I recognized the tiger stripe Zero Tolerance blade. Was a 350. I was thoroughly impressed! Didn’t want to show him up tho, so I just showed him my Kershaw Dividend that I always have at work. Generally speaking though, no one knows anything “high end”.
 
co556guy said:
That is the question, I imagine.

I've found that in life, the more preformance one wants, the more the price increases while the improvement per dollar spent lessens.

Some are willing to spend the money for those improvements because they matter. Others would never get the pleasure derived due to the expense incurred. Much like most can appreciate a supercar, even enjoy driving one once. But putting their cash into it.....removes their desire and enjoyment.

That's kind of my point. People who want nice things tend to seek them out. Others may appreciate nice things, but most would never be willing to actually acqiure an example or use it due to the expense.
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Yes. that's actually preaching to the choir since I'm a knife afi but what I actually mean is is there objectively, a proportionate increase in performance from a regular say $50 dollar knife to a midtech. Proportianal to the increase in price, I mean. I definitely get wanting a sebenza or a strider because I like knives and I am here at BF. ;)
 
Nothing, the average person in the US is an alarmist disarmamentarian. However some girls asked to use my Spyderco Cricket a few times when I worked retail and they had to open packages. Now that is a nice little knife!

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K.O.D. said:
Knife knuts? I show them my Bailey Model 2.

Sheeple? The Becker BK5.
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Why would you show one of them a knife anyway? You can be arrested or lose your job.
 
singularity35 said:
Yes. that's actually preaching to the choir since I'm a knife afi but what I actually mean is is there objectively, a proportionate increase in performance from a regular say $50 dollar knife to a midtech. Proportianal to the increase in price, I mean. I definitely get wanting a sebenza or a strider because I like knives and I am here at BF. ;)
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Proportional is subjective, but generally I'd say my enjoyment in general goes up as the quality of the product increases.

Good steel with a good heat treat and thought out design of blade and handle shape is always going to out-perform against lower quality steel with a basic heat treat. Less thought in design of blade shape, and handle shape affect performance too.

Ontario rat-1 in AUS8 for example. Overall, it's a nice enough knife. Basic design but works well. Cheap build. Heavy due to liners not being lightened, cheap plastic scales. Good clip. Good blade shape. AUS8 is easy to make screamingly sharp but I've found it to dull much faster than my s30v pm2. Way faster. Both are ffg, so it's not a geometry thing.

Overall, the pm2 is subatantially better than the rat1, however the casual knife user may never care enough to spend enough to buy 3-4 rat1 knives in order to get a pm2. The math is even worse if you considee the zt0452 I edc. Yet the 0452 i a far nicer knife in all ways than either.

So to answer your question.....yes, the improvements from the rat1 to the zt452 are objectively and subjectivey better. For me. And I think anyone who compares them would see that even if they didn't have any impetus to actually buy the nicer knives over the cheaper rat1.

My friends though, they've seen my 0452 and they wanted one (they claimed at least. But they'd never spend the $ because they don't care. The better stee (s35vn) means nothing to them, the Ti and CF liner while lighter...not worth the $. Sure it flips fast, but so does an assisted leek. The better mfg tolerances of the zt....they wouldn't notice it, even compared to stamped parts with rough edges. They wouldnt understand the concept behind the blade shape.

When the main metric is: "it cuts open my premade sandwich wrapper," they don't care.

But those little things....while not worth the $ individually, to me they work magically to make the use better, and satisfies my ocd and makes me happy.
 
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I'd probably show non knife people my Spyderco Civilian, actually I have shown it to plenty of non knife people. If you want to see people's eyes open wide, whip out a Civilian.
 
It's been a slow build up, but before I was married, I gave my wife to be 2 Shun kitchen knives that I was not using anymore. It did not take long for her experience with them to show her how much easier it was to perform food prep with well balanced and sharp knives.

I speculate that with out the practical experience, she would have cared not a bit about kitchen knives or knives in general besides tolerating them laying all about the house. Now however, she understands the value of a sharp edge and can test if an edge is sharp, that some knives perform differently based on thick vs. thin edges, balance and hand placement are important for reducing hand fatigue, and that cutting on ceramic plates or steel pans dulls her edges very fast.

Her appreciation of the practical benefits has also meant that she wants sharp knives and that's fine by me as I like to maintain them.

Now, I buy her knives and so do my parents, so I guess using the familiar kitchen as the introduction and kitchen knives as the gateway was a method to showcase cool and useful knives to someone who is not a knife person.

Outside the kitchen, she took notice of a Fiddleback Forge Lady Finger one day and I was not trying to show it off, but the handle material caught her eye. (no handy pic to show it, unfortunately).

For a knife person, I'd show them what ever I had on me at the time.
 
I'd show a non knife person my custom griptillian. To a knife person I'd show them my sebenzas and my German made filet knife.
 
co556guy said:
Proportional is subjective, but generally I'd say my enjoyment in general goes up as the quality of the product increases.

Good steel with a good heat treat and thought out design of blade and handle shape is always going to out-perform against lower quality steel with a basic heat treat. Less thought in design of blade shape, and handle shape affect performance too.

Ontario rat-1 in AUS8 for example. Overall, it's a nice enough knife. Basic design but works well. Cheap build. Heavy due to liners not being lightened, cheap plastic scales. Good clip. Good blade shape. AUS8 is easy to make screamingly sharp but I've found it to dull much faster than my s30v pm2. Way faster. Both are ffg, so it's not a geometry thing.

Overall, the pm2 is subatantially better than the rat1, however the casual knife user may never care enough to spend enough to buy 3-4 rat1 knives in order to get a pm2. The math is even worse if you considee the zt0452 I edc. Yet the 0452 i a far nicer knife in all ways than either.

So to answer your question.....yes, the improvements from the rat1 to the zt452 are objectively and subjectivey better. For me. And I think anyone who compares them would see that even if they didn't have any impetus to actually buy the nicer knives over the cheaper rat1.

My friends though, they've seen my 0452 and they wanted one (they claimed at least. But they'd never spend the $ because they don't care. The better stee (s35vn) means nothing to them, the Ti and CF liner while lighter...not worth the $. Sure it flips fast, but so does an assisted leek. The better mfg tolerances of the zt....they wouldn't notice it, even compared to stamped parts with rough edges. They wouldnt understand the concept behind the blade shape.

When the main metric is: "it cuts open my premade sandwich wrapper," they don't care.

But those little things....while not worth the $ individually, to me they work magically to make the use better, and satisfies my ocd and makes me happy.
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See? The thing is our value judgements are all subjective. Objectively(by measures that are quantifiable)we all know they don't cut 10x better than a knife 1/10 of the price. I don't really care what you are willing to pay for a knife, what I'm curious about is whether that midtech has anything that is ten times better in performance and not just some intangible quality like pride of ownership or because I can reasons.

The simple answer really is either yes or no, not a wall of text. After more than a few years of carrying one handers and using knives since I was in elementary, I'm inclined to see that there's really not a 10x increase in performance.

Oh yes, and I've been answered with you either get it or not, I do get it. I do understand the desire for quality tools and kit just that I believe that they are just an indulgence not a necessary upgrade. Oh, and I hope that nobody takes this as a personal attack.
 
singularity35 said:
See? The thing is our value judgements are all subjective. Objectively(by measures that are quantifiable)we all know they don't cut 10x better than a knife 1/10 of the price. I don't really care what you are willing to pay for a knife, what I'm curious about is whether that midtech has anything that is ten times better in performance and not just some intangible quality like pride of ownership or because I can reasons.

The simple answer really is either yes or no, not a wall of text. After more than a few years of carrying one handers and using knives since I was in elementary, I'm inclined to see that there's really not a 10x increase in performance.

Oh yes, and I've been answered with you either get it or not, I do get it. I do understand the desire for quality tools and kit just that I believe that they are just an indulgence not a necessary upgrade. Oh, and I hope that nobody takes this as a personal attack.
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The wall of text is a response to the oversimplification you're trying to acheve and my unwillingness to play that game.

There are may more qualities to a knife that make it what it is besides "number of rope cuts, catra cuts, or whatever."

A thing is the sum of it's parts. Some of those things are measurable, and therefore objectively describable. Others are subjective, and therefore cannot be put in a box and compared directly as opinions vary. Handle size and shape, for example. Not only do human hands vary, handle size and shape has influence upon knife task specilization. A field knife vs a self defense knife has different needs in handle design. A skinner needs a different blade profile than a paring knife.

You want a simple yes/no that you can then turn around and make a point with. I won't be providing that. It's not that simple and it is disingeuous to the discussion as it intentionally makes a difinitive statement on a subject that is nothing but subjective to the puchaser's wants, needs, attributes and emotional whims.

I'm willing to spend more $ than many to obtain knives I like for reasons I find important. I appreciate the slight improvments made possible by smaller makers that have more ability to make the small tweaks due to having more room in the profit margin to do those things.

The difference alone between handle comfort of a busse team gemini and a becker of equal size is worth it, even if edge holding is exactly the same. I use big knives when I'm chainsawing to clear brush, small limbs, etc. I also spent a good bit of $ on my saw, because it's the best performing for the weight and has a kick-ass anti-vibe (stihl ms-462). Weighs close to a 362, more power, less vibe. More spendy but worth it to me. But the next guy might not make that calculus. (my local dealer is stihl, if it was a husky dealer I'd go for one of those....having a dealer close is needed).
 
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Knife gal/guy: What I have on me, if s/he asks what my carry is.

"Average" guy who may or may not even carry a knife, I usually don't show him anything.

If I'm not asked, I don't show.
I don't carry to "impress" anyone, or to show off.
 
co556guy said:
The wall of text is a response to the oversimplification you're trying to acheve and my unwillingness to play that game.

There are may more qualities to a knife that make it what it is besides "number of rope cuts, catra cuts, or whatever."

A thing is the sum of it's parts. Some of those things are measurable, and therefore objectively describable. Others are subjective, and therefore cannot be put in a box and compared directly as opinions vary. Handle size and shape, for example. Not only do human hands vary, handle size and shape has influence upon knife task specilization. A field knife vs a self defense knife has different needs in handle design. A skinner needs a different blade profile than a paring knife.

You want a simple yes/no that you can then turn around and make a point with. I won't be providing that. It's not that simple and it is disingeuous to the discussion as it intentionally makes a difinitive statement on a subject that is nothing but subjective to the puchaser's wants, needs, attributes and emotional whims.

I'm willing to spend more $ than many to obtain knives I like for reasons I find important. I appreciate the slight improvments made possible by smaller makers that have more ability to make the small tweaks due to having more room in the profit margin to do those things.

The difference alone between handle comfort of a busse team gemini and a becker of equal size is worth it, even if edge holding is exactly the same. I use big knives when I'm chainsawing to clear brush, small limbs, etc. I also spent a good bit of $ on my saw, because it's the best performing for the weight and has a kick-ass anti-vibe (stihl ms-462). Weighs close to a 362, more power, less vibe. More spendy but worth it to me. But the next guy might not make that calculus. (my local dealer is stihl, if it was a husky dealer I'd go for one of those....having a dealer close is needed).
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It is simple. It's either a yes or a no. Complicating the issue is just trying to find ways of justifying a higher price. As I said, you may find ot better in intangible ways but I'm pretty sure a farmhand here can do much more with a $10 dollar bolo made from leafsprings than a city dude with a busse or some pricey knife. No amount of verbal gymnastics will make a midtech perform 10x better than a knife 1/10 the price. Let's take a para 2. What knife 10 times the price will cut with 1/10 the effort or will cut 10 times the material. I'm not talking about junk knives like CCC's, I'm talking about $100 knives.

In any tangible measure like cardboard or rope cutting or even with a machine that measures cutting pressure. Name me a knife that cuts 10 times better than a plain jane para 2 at 10x the price.
 
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singularity35 said:
It is simple. It's either a yes or a no. Complicating the issue is just trying to find ways of justifying a higher price. As I said, you may find ot better in intangible ways but I'm pretty sure a farmhand here can do much more with a $10 dollar bolo made from leafsprings than a city dude with a busse or some pricey knife. No amount of verbal gymnastics will make a midtech perform 10x better than a knife 1/10 the price. Let's take a para 2. What knife 10 times the price will cut with 1/10 the effort or will cut 10 times the material. I'm not talking about junk knives like CCC's, I'm talking about $100 knives.

In any tangible measure like cardboard or rope cutting or even with a machine that measures cutting pressure. Name me a knife that cuts 10 times better than a plain jane para 2.
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Thanks for making my point.

You were trying to force me to answer in a way that supported your answer and your desired conclusion.

Just because you demand I answer in a way you intended to use to oversimplify the issue doesn't mean I have to play into that hand.

Let me be clear. I disagree with you in every way. Period. What I find important, desirable, and worth my money is my choice. Have a good day, sir.
 
co556guy said:
Let me be clear. I disagree with you in every way. Period. What I find important, desirable, and worth my money is my choice. Have a good day, sir.
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You can disagree but my question was a simple one that you refuse to answer.

My question was: Is there a midtech knife costing 10x more than a regular knife that can cut with 1/10 the force needed on the regular knife or cut 10 times the material than the regular knife.

I'm sure all of us here already know the answer to this. We all have our preferences and reasons but this does not change this fact. Oh, there may be a couple of specific instances where this is not the case but in general, this is recognized by sensible people.

That you answer that questions with evasions and strawman arguments is a telling answer. I never really asked if a midtech was worth it to someone who buys it because I already know the answer. I'm not forcing you to agree to anything. I just asked a question that you apparently refuse to answer.

I have no idea how long you have had hobbies but we all know that there is a law of diminishing returns. Additionally, I have observed that a lot of people generally take it personally when their dearly held beliefs are challenged with facts. :D

Tada! See you around. :D
 
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