PID programming for dummies! HELP

D

Dixieblade57

Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
1,361
OK. I obviously can't find such a book or wouldn't be asking stupid questions, but here goes.

My forge is an ever evolving project at the present. Here is a photo taken last year of it on the grinder/forge cart I have made for it to set on to give me the option of rolling it around for lack of space and being able to get outdoors to vent!

Grindercart003.jpg


forge002.jpg


This is present day.

Forge001-1.jpg


Forge003.jpg


Forge004-1.jpg


If you look closely you can see where the PID controller is sitting, mounted in the aluminum diamond plate below the forge.
Forge002-1.jpg


Eventual the PID will be used to read the K-type thermocouple I have it hooked to now and control the gas solenoids that will run the propane through the forge.

For the present this is what I want to do! I want to use the PID to monitor the temp from the K-type thermocouple and sit off an alarm 50*F before it reaches maximum or minimum temp for working 1080 steel to forge temp.

In other words the maximum working temp is 2150*F, so I want to sit off the alarm at 2100*F to warn me it is approaching to top limit.

I also want to set up for minimum temp which is 1500*F, so I want it too set off an alarm at 1650*F to warn me it is approaching the bottom of good working temp.

I will manually have to control the temp by the valves to keep it within the proper working temps!


My PID was bought off of ebay and I guess it goes with that ole saying, "you get what you pay for", as I have discovered it is made in Hong Kong and comes with no directions. I have had a couple of other blade makers give me instructions of how to program from another thread. (NOT THE SAME EXACT ONE BUT ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE IT, MADE BY ANOTHER COMPANY)
Some of the information was helpful and some not so much. My problem is I need the PID programming for dummies version as the more I read the more I seem to get lost.


My PID is a Model JLD612, it looks like this one that is the same model built by another company!
http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362 instruction 1.6.pdf

So here is the start of the dumb questions:

I was under the imrpession that the alarms were built into the PID controller but, after reading something on a site about programming a PID I think I have to purchase the alarm and hook them to the PID.

1. Is that correct I need purchase the alarms? If so where do you get something like that?

2. How do I go about programming the PID to monitor the temp in *F?

3. How do I go about programming in the temp of 2100*F as the point to set off the top temp to alarm?

4. How do I go about programming in the temp of 1650*f as the point to set off the bottom temp to alarm?

Can anyone throw a bone to ole dog who is nearly program illiterate? As soon as I start to read the instructions it begins to sound like legal mumbo jumbo, "as the party of the first part, failed to notify the party of the second part...................blah , blah, blah"! And then my mind begins to shut down and the more I reread the instructions the less I usnderstand!!!!!!!!! HELP PLEASE!:confused:
 
Just a quick reply, before I go searching for information on your exact controller (BTW, what is the mfg name?).
1. Are you sure that your controller has both a high and low alarm?
2. Yes, you need an external alarm. The "alarm" in the controller is an alarm "state" or "signal". It will either stop process, or send/allow an output when this set point is reached.
Best
Steve

Edit: here is a link to the PDF manual for your device. I will read it later today and try and give you some more input. http://fhupiora.fhupiora.home.pl/JLD612Manual.pdf In a quick review it shows an application which is exactly what you want, high and low alarms with the use of a K type TC, driving an SSR, and 110vac line voltage.
 
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This is easier then it sounds:
PID is only used for continuous control (typical updates 20k per second). Most all heat control is done by alarms (on / off). Looks like controller you have can output both, but I think you want the alarm. Most alarms can be set with a high, and low setpoint...alarm is on when temp is below the low set point, and off above when the temp is above the high set point (sometimes the delta in temps is called hysteresis). The alarm output will typically be wired to a relay, to operate the electronic valves (you just need simple on/off valves for this. If you want to better understand the alarm function, it's the same concept used in ever home heating circuit ( thermostat). Let me know if you still have questions. :)
 
I disagree. At this point he doesn't want valve control. He will use the upper/lower limit alarms outputs to turn on an external device (light/buzzer) when he is approaching what he considers average forging process temperatures. Additionally, once he goes to using solenoid valves, using the PID controlled ssr output will give much finer control than yhe method you describe. I'm on my phone right now so cannot give more detail.
 
Sorry I missed the fact this was only a monitor....no valves needed.

I was thinking a simple constant low heat with a high heat bypass (on/off), then it adjusts automatically. Simple, and just more valves.
 
Motion, in that scenario your control process would work pretty well. I still like using PI or PID for greater control over just set point on/off, but in some circumstances simpler does work better.
 
stevomiller said:
Just a quick reply, before I go searching for information on your exact controller (BTW, what is the mfg name?).
1. Are you sure that your controller has both a high and low alarm?
2. Yes, you need an external alarm. The "alarm" in the controller is an alarm "state" or "signal". It will either stop process, or send/allow an output when this set point is reached.
Best
Steve

Edit: here is a link to the PDF manual for your device. I will read it later today and try and give you some more input. http://fhupiora.fhupiora.home.pl/JLD612Manual.pdf In a quick review it shows an application which is exactly what you want, high and low alarms with the use of a K type TC, driving an SSR, and 110vac line voltage.
Click to expand...

First things first the one in your link, is just like the mine and the box is the same. So I think that is the actual one I have. It is hard to see on that box but it shows the options for setting up the PID. That is the only info I have found up till you posted this site.

Where do I need to go to purchase the alarms?

Does someplace like radio shack carry them and what exactly do I ask for?

In the info I had read online on the others like this one it says you can set it up to read C* or F*. I am old school I would prefer for it to read F* but I have yet to figure out exactly how to do it!

Here is the only thing I got with the PID it is the box and it looks like the one in the link. This is what is on it.

Versatile Temperature
Control Device

Model: JLD612

MDID

________________________________________________________________________

Accept:

T, R, J, B S K, E

WRe3-WRe25, Pt 100, Cu50

Output options:
0. J1,J2 Relay/Alarm
1. J1 Alarm; J2 PID
2. J1, J2 Alarm; SSR PID

CURRENT SETTING:

INPUT:________

OUTPUT:______

The idea is for what I am using it for the high alarm will let me know ahead of the point of too high and too low so I can adjust the gas manually, for the time being till I decide to go to the gas solenoids to manage the gas input!
 
"ALARM" is just a word. It means that there is an output voltage or relay contact closing when that point is reached. The "alarm" device can be a light, buzzer, bell, or whatever you hook up to that output/relay.

The alarm function you desire is pretty much the same thing as the solenoids will be later. I would suggest you wire in the SSRs now, and hook up whatever alarm device you wish to the SSR. That way you will be ready to just switch to the solenoids when you are at that stage.
 
Dixie, follow the link for some notes on the manual that may help you. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UMvFTSAqsQ2R1m_kV1PGiMrKAGFxCz8-0vrKpxRMJy0/edit Hope this helps. As far as the buzzer is concerned, most are going to be lower voltage ac or dc units. To utilize these you will need to also have a transformer or power supply to make them functional. If it isn't something that you have laying around, and would have to buy (fairly cheap), I would spend the $75 and buy a solenoid valve.
 
stevomiller, you are the man! That is the right one for my PID and with the highlights I might even be able to figure it out! After reading what you and Stacy had to say I think I may be saving for the SSR, solenoids, and alarms.

You know once upon I time I had money and sanity and then I went and built my first knife!!!!!!!!!!:D I think I will use that for my new signature!:D
 
now you have the same one I have and I had tried to order the TET612 but they sent me the new JLD612 PID.
so please tell me if I am wrong.

now this guy has his TET612 setup like this. but from what I have read is that the JLD612 is not the same.
http://www.caffreyknives.net/salt_tanks.html

digitalcontrollerwiring.jpg


Now the JLD612 should be set like this? am I right or wrong? please any help will do.
Terminal #1: Power source + or -

Terminal #2: Line 1 Power source + or -

Terminal #3: not used ? (after reading some more it said : Relay J1: #3, #4 = normally closed,)

Terminal #4: One leg of solenoid gas valve (mine is a normally closed)

Terminal #5: Second leg of solenoid gas valve ( so I would not use this one but would have 3 and 4 ?)

■

Terminals #6, #7, & #8: NOT USED

For K type
Terminal #9: Negative wire of thermocouple (red is Negative for Thermo wire)

Terminal #10: Positive wire of thermocouple (white/yellow/brown wire)
link to manual below
http://www.lightobject.info/download/file.php?id=736
 
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CRJ, if you looked, you would have seen that this is a four year old discussion.

If you had checked his activity, you would have seen that Dixie blades has only posted one time in the last three and a half years.

Opening up old threads with no chance of getting any input is called necroposting. Try and avoid that.
 
so sorry most people get all mad when you do not search the forums to see if their is a post relating to the subject before starting a new one. and I was hoping someone had some answers that would help me. before I put the power to it.
 
CRJarvis said:
so sorry most people get all mad when you do not search the forums to see if their is a post relating to the subject before starting a new one. and I was hoping someone had some answers that would help me. before I put the power to it.
Click to expand...

Just start a new thread CR.....you'll get plenty of help.
 
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