PIF-ERS just talking shop

[mycough]

I tried to help. ....I did.....

Not sure I do.... yet... So you offer up a knife and someone grabs it instantly... (ex. the krein grind sage 2).
Now the gentleman has approved the pif and ships the knife.
The sage has been replaced by a proper pif, which is placed on list.
Here is where my confusion is, I think. The original poster of the sage now has credit? Now that credit, is it the value of the sage? or the pif? One last question, is this credit the "karma" that has caused issues/debate?
I guess that is it for now, I will say the more I read and "keep pulling on that thread" the more I agree with bella blade calling this a social experiment.
I see givers, I see takers, but mostly I just see some guys having fun. I am gonna put something on tomorrow and see what happens, I have circled the pool long enough, gotta give this a whirl.

Russ

 

[RayseM]

mycough , For example -

1) Someone puts in a SAK (Swiss Army Knife) without at this time, claiming another item in return.

2) I put in an Opinel because I want the SAK.

3) The OPI for the SAK approved by the poster of the SAK.

4) I get the SAK. My Opinel stays on the list. My PIF is done with this round. I came, I asked, I received, I delivered.

5) The PIFer of the SAK now has accrued PIF KARMA, i.e., somewhere down the line he/she chooses to claim something off the list or something newly offered - e.,g., A slightly used Spyderco Shaman. BY RIGHTS the original SAK should approximately equal the value of the SHAMAN - OR - something else could be added to satisfy that "value".

This value discussion usually takes place between the two folks involved in that specific PIF. The Shaman guy might say that the SAK - though very nice - is not equal to the Shaman, so please add to the PIF. OK says SAK guy - I'll add a like new in tube Case bone stag TRIBAL lock.

Now maybe in the real world the SAK and the Case don't equal $ for $ the highly overpriced Shaman but in terms of interest value we know have two real nice knives than have been PIFed by the SAK guy. Shaman PIFer says great. SAK PIFer gets a Shaman and adds to the list a Case bone stag TRIBAL Lock in like new condition.

6) SAK PIF round is complete.

7) The Shaman PIFer can choose something off the list or wait until something more to his/her liking comes along ...

And on and on...

More confusion did I add

Ray

EDIT - This is the basics! Has been a bit confusing with the SUPER PIFers (I write this as an endearment ) adding multiple items to the list and more the next day and some of them with NO PIF required. We have good reason to be confused.

Super keeper of the list @JupiterPaladin, is taking good care of order though. The honor system works and is in full compliance in PIF - we see it every day. A few misunderstandings and disappointments but all in all working good because all is done with good faith, good intentions and in the right spirit. I'm in!

 

[Worldwatcher]

Not sure I do.... yet... So you offer up a knife and someone grabs it instantly... (ex. the krein grind sage 2).
Now the gentleman has approved the pif and ships the knife.
The sage has been replaced by a proper pif, which is placed on list.
Here is where my confusion is, I think. The original poster of the sage now has credit? Now that credit, is it the value of the sage? or the pif? One last question, is this credit the "karma" that has caused issues/debate?
I guess that is it for now, I will say the more I read and "keep pulling on that thread" the more I agree with bella blade calling this a social experiment.
I see givers, I see takers, but mostly I just see some guys having fun. I am gonna put something on tomorrow and see what happens, I have circled the pool long enough, gotta give this a whirl.

Russ

It has been confusing for sure. If you want to throw something up great. Or you can wait till something comes up if you want. Some do treat it as a trade thread and hold onto pifs till they see something they want. Others just offer things up and don’t make a claim. While others yet, see something that catches their eye and they hadn't been looking for, but want to try it. Lots of different philosophies going on here. Hopefully that helps, I might have just confused myself

 

[RayseM]

Like he says, as he watches Worldwatcher - "lots of different philosophies..."

Ray

 

[mycough]

I understand better now, including karma, I believe.
Now Ray, as you said, the sak and case dont equal the value of the shaman, but if the shaman poster signs off, his "karma" is based on his offering, not the offering he accepted.
Now myself, I might be concerned that the PIF offerings were weakened by accepting the offer, though I would be reticent to state that for fear of upsetting someone.
I say this, because it is just how my mind works. I am not some wicked nice guy by any stretch, I just roasted some prick on the reate subforum because he just plain needed it, but haggling over a knife deal makes me uncomfortable.
Bottom line, I think I can hook some guys up with some cool stuff,and who knows, something wicked cool could come my way.
Thanks for explaining guys, my white hair was once blonde, and it aint just chicks...
Russ

 

[Worldwatcher]

I understand better now, including karma, I believe.
Now Ray, as you said, the sak and case dont equal the value of the shaman, but if the shaman poster signs off, his "karma" is based on his offering, not the offering he accepted.
Now myself, I might be concerned that the PIF offerings were weakened by accepting the offer, though I would be reticent to state that for fear of upsetting someone.
I say this, because it is just how my mind works. I am not some wicked nice guy by any stretch, I just roasted some prick on the reate subforum because he just plain needed it, but haggling over a knife deal makes me uncomfortable.
Bottom line, I think I can hook some guys up with some cool stuff,and who knows, something wicked cool could come my way.
Thanks for explaining guys, my white hair was once blonde, and it aint just chicks...
Russ

You are correct. For the most part values should be equal or greater moving forward. Also another problem that occurred is people grabbing a nice knife and putting up a bunch of lesser valued things to equal it, “in their mind” and therefore those items sit because nobody wants them. Especially when grouped as one item. Who wants to pif a nice $160 knife for 8 $20 items? Not many and therefore the thread dies down. Looks like we have gotten away from that and that is where the pif approval idea was born from. The direction we are headed now works better. It is all growing pains in this experiment but it seems to for the most part be a very positive thing and I hope it continues.

 

[dsalazar]

I understand better now, including karma, I believe.
Now Ray, as you said, the sak and case dont equal the value of the shaman, but if the shaman poster signs off, his "karma" is based on his offering, not the offering he accepted.
Now myself, I might be concerned that the PIF offerings were weakened by accepting the offer, though I would be reticent to state that for fear of upsetting someone.
I say this, because it is just how my mind works. I am not some wicked nice guy by any stretch, I just roasted some prick on the reate subforum because he just plain needed it, but haggling over a knife deal makes me uncomfortable.
Bottom line, I think I can hook some guys up with some cool stuff,and who knows, something wicked cool could come my way.
Thanks for explaining guys, my white hair was once blonde, and it aint just chicks...
Russ

You could always just dip your toes in the water. Find something small on the list you maybe want to try. Request it and pif something equal. This avoids going with the karma route and is just to try it out.

 

[Coyja]

Ugh, the karma thing again.
Meanwhile the thread has turned into night school.
I have a Costco membership so if anyone knows how I can have a 48 pack of Kirkland Light shipped to Jupiter, lmk.

 

[Yimes]

Ugh, the karma thing again.
Meanwhile the thread has turned into night school.
I have a Costco membership so if anyone knows how I can have a 48 pack of Kirkland Light shipped to Jupiter, lmk.

LOL

My personal philosophy for what its worth:

PIF something without claiming anything because you want to.

Claim an item and put up close to equal or greater value items (and get approval) because you want the item.

Don't count on Karma.

For me it keeps this fun and simple.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

In my opinion...once the “karma” that people have now is used...there should be no more “karma”. It confuses things in a thread that is supposed to be paying-it-forward.
Claim a knife or item...and PIF something of equal or more value...PIF = pay it forward.
Its not a “hope i get something awesome later” thread. Rules are simple, and can be that way again if this Karma business can be eliminated with all parties happy.
My 2 cents only.

Edit for spelling. :/

 

[RayseM]

Now Ray, as you said, the sak and case dont equal the value of the shaman, but if the shaman poster signs off, his "karma" is based on his offering, not the offering he accepted.
Russ

Hey Russ, to your question - in my humble opinion, IMHO, aka , my 2¢ - we are splitting hairs with a wicked sharp edge at this point. The value of SAK and the Case Tribal, to the SHAMAN, are for PIF purpose now EQUAL. The Shaman guy could say, when the time comes to claim a PIF, that his Shaman was worth $260.00 but the net gain to the PIF he accepted was, maybe $ 150.00. Who is keeping the ledger? If he was putting in the Shaman with no specific other interest in mind at the time, then what value is when he wants to claim his Karma NOW SEEMS TO BE in the hands/mind of the person who's PIF he is looking to score.

If you care about getting full value for your PIF don't throw it in until you see something of equal value you really want. Otherwise you are just being a friend to your PIF brothers and sisters.

I'm still confused Much easier if we just keep it all one to one and don't depend on "karma" (kind of my s.o.p.) but as has been noted - different philosophies.

Ray

A few posts came in while I was writing. I agree - karma is complicated and complicating. Just put in and take out as it happens.

 

[WValtakis]

In my opinion...once the “karma” that people have now is used...there should be no more “karma”. It confuses things in a thread that is supposed to be paying-it-forward.
Claim a knife or item...and PIF something of equal or more value...PIF = pay it forward.
It not a “hope i get something awesome later” thread. Rules are simple, and can be that way again if this Karma business can be eliminated with all parties happy.
My 2 cents only.

 

[woodysone]

I’d like this Sharp, no more Karma will make this thread so much easier to follow and no hard feelings.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

I’d like this Sharp, no more Karma will make this thread so much easier to follow and no hard feelings.

Exactly. We need to get back to “thinking about the other guy”, not thinking “whats in it for me.” To be blunt.

 

[Coyja]

As a “social experiment” per se, there are so many things that can/could muddy the waters in the thread, the whole karma thing just doesn’t seem like it’s worth the headache, to me.

Isn’t this how Lord of the Flies started out, anyway?

 

[dsalazar]

LOL

My personal philosophy for what its worth:

PIF something without claiming anything because you want to.

Claim an item and put up close to equal or greater value items (and get approval) because you want the item.

Don't count on Karma.

For me it keeps this fun and simple.

That’s how I’ve kept it. If there’s nothing on the list I like I wait. You can’t count on something that isn’t regulated like that. Even crypto currency has a set limits

 

[South paw draw]

Here's my proper

For looking at not for pif.

Moved this over from the pif thread.

 

[cchu518]

Some dudes get real worked up over $100+ knives. It's a double edged sword to me as again grabbing a nice knife and then putting up something kinda not interesting + their belly button lint seems like they're taking advantage of someone's kindness and making it not fun for the next person. Then again in the spirit of paying it forward this stuff is just knives ... And for some ppl they might not have the ability to drop cash on knives to their hearts delight. Some ppl get vexed over this but if somehow someone can see it in their ability to brighten up someone's day without having to keep tabs about receiving equal value back in the exchange that should be up to the person to decide. It's a tough world out there and ppl can always turn their backs and say too bad what's mine is mine you go get your own. Or they could just throw a good knife out there in the spirit of fun knowing that something decent may or may not come back. But that they somehow helped a brother out.

There was a point when things got slow on the thread and I said the hell with it and threw up my favorite knife. It wasn't that it was expensive it's just that it was literally my favorite knife.

The universe was able to sort it self out and I can say that both parties including myself got a ton out of that exchange and it also kick started a little run on cool stuff. It It came back full circle in that I was able to discover one of my current favorite edcs through a chain of events from that transaction.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Some dudes get real worked up over $100+ knives. It's a double edged sword to me as again grabbing a nice knife and then putting up something kinda not interesting + their belly button lint seems like they're taking advantage of someone's kindness and making it not fun for the next person. Then again in the spirit of paying it forward this stuff is just knives ... And for some ppl they might not have the ability to drop cash on knives to their hearts delight. Some ppl get vexed over this but if somehow someone can see it in their ability to brighten up someone's day without having to keep tabs about receiving equal value back in the exchange that should be up to the person to decide. It's a tough world out there and ppl can always turn their backs and say too bad what's mine is mine you go get your own. Or they could just throw a good knife out there in the spirit of fun knowing that something decent may or may not come back. But that they somehow helped a brother out.

There was a point when things got slow on the thread and I said the hell with it and threw up my favorite knife. It wasn't that it was expensive it's just that it was literally my favorite knife.

The universe was able to sort it self out and I can say that both parties including myself got a ton out of that exchange and it also kick started a little run on cool stuff. It It came back full circle in that I was able to discover one of my current favorite edcs through a chain of events from that transaction.

This does work to some extent...say i throw out a nice $250 knife. And the claimer puts up two knives for said “nice knife”, but...(unknown to me) claimer also has $250 knives, but doesnt want to post them up for it? Am i helping out the “guy with little money to spend?”, or the “guy who is furthering his collection? There are lots of members of the PIF thread, who is to say that my $250 PIF will make it into the hands of a member who needs it?
I am all for the 1 for 1, also, for just throwing something out there. So if we do put up some more valuable knives, we cannot complain about who gets it.
Like i said before, its all about intentions. As long as all participants have the same intention...to pay it forward...everything will be just fine.

 

[cchu518]

This does work to some extent...say i throw out a nice $250 knife. And the claimer puts up two knives for said “nice knife”, but...(unknown to me) claimer also has $250 knives, but doesnt want to post them up for it? Am i helping out the “guy with little money to spend?”, or the “guy who is furthering his collection? There are lots of members of the PIF thread, who is to say that my $250 PIF will make it into the hands of a member who needs it?
I am all for the 1 for 1, also, for just throwing something out there. So if we do put up some more valuable knives, we cannot complain about who gets it.
Like i said before, its all about intentions. As long as all participants have the same intention...to pay it forward...everything will be just fine.

This ^ is totally true. And as far as the pif thread goes, we can't control intention. If it generally stays true in it's direction I'm going to continue to participate where I can. Especially so long as it stays fun.

I've reduced my knife collection to about a dozen knives at any given time. One of the interesting observances is that those members with larger collections who like to rotate they're non users I'm general also add benefit to the thread through adding more knives with more frequency.