Please explain about honing vs stroping

S

smilesenpai

Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
25
Hi family of BladeForums.

Just joined after become obsessed with knives. :D

I have a Shun 10" Chef (thanks to media =_=) and can not get it as sharp as factory. Do I achieve this with honing and stropping? Or get a stone higher than my 3000/6000 grit?

Also, how do I polish out scratches on the body of the knife?


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Wonkey cutting boards are the devil.
 
smilesenpai said:
Hi family of BladeForums.

Just joined after become obsessed with knives. :D
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Welcome to the mad-knifer-house.

I have a Shun 10" Chef (thanks to media =_=) and can not get it as sharp as factory. Do I achieve this with honing and stropping? Or get a stone higher than my 3000/6000 grit?
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For initial sharpening, you should set new bevel with 400 then progress to 1K -> 6K -> strop on newspaper.

Also, how do I polish out scratches on the body of the knife?
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Depend on the depth of deepest scratch. In general, use wet & dry SiC sandspaper. start at 6K going down grit until new scratches 2/3 deep as the deepest existing scratch, then rub until the deepest scratch is gone. Progress up the w&d grit, then strop on 1um -> 0.5um -> 0.25um diamond loaded strops. Sort of guarantee that you'll make mess the first time. Don't worry, as a knifenut you'll find a way to mess it up even worse but as long as it cuts like lazer, it's all good.

General terms/ideas:
Sharpening = abrade blade metal to expose an edge
Honing = burnish/plastic-flow deformed/rolled edge back to shape. If rod type is not smooth, refine sharpening occurs.
Stropping = refine edge geometry (bevel & teeth) and apex thinning.
 
bluntcut said:
General terms/ideas:
Sharpening = abrade blade metal to expose an edge
Honing = burnish/plastic-flow deformed/rolled edge back to shape. If rod type is not smooth, refine sharpening occurs. (Meaning metal IS removed!)
Stropping = refine edge geometry (bevel & teeth) and apex thinning.
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#1 job of putting these terms into easy-to-understand language, although there may be some disagreement about the definition of 'honing!' However, I especially like your added comment regarding the type of rod used for your definition. There is a very big difference between using a 'Butcher's Steel' and a 'Meatpacker's Steel,' the latter being a completely smooth rod, and MUCH better for maintaining an edge. I use glass instead of steel as it's easier to get locally (use any Pyrex cooking pan edge if you can't find a chemical supply shop that sells it) and use it before every food prep session. No metal removal, and quick restoration of the apex.


Stitchawl
 
Wow thanks! This is a lot of help. :) It was all becoming clear.

When stropping with newspaper, do solid surface do you recommend using?
 
I recommend using a precision ground granite* surface stone. Then again that costs a lot of money.

A simple hard surface would do. Glass for example is generally great.
 
smilesenpai said:
Time to go shopping for some precision ground granite. Thanks.
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A flat piece of wood or on top of any sharpening stones (water, oil, plate types) would also do fine. Strop with newspaper on a 120-280 grit stone actually more effective <= yes, those tiny abrasive bump beneath the paper modifying the strop physics making more effective at refinement.
 
How many layers of news paper do you suggest?
Will the newspaper give me the same edge a compound on leather would?
Virtuovice's (youtube) are insanely being able to thin strips off paper using Bark River white compound.

My knife is used for a commerical kitchen. Why would I need at 120 - 280 grit? Chips? I currently do a 3000 > 6000.
 
smilesenpai said:
How many layers of news paper do you suggest?
Will the newspaper give me the same edge a compound on leather would?
Virtuovice's (youtube) are insanely being able to thin strips off paper using Bark River white compound.

My knife is used for a commerical kitchen. Why would I need at 120 - 280 grit? Chips? I currently do a 3000 > 6000.
Click to expand...

Strop with 1 layer of newspaper ontop of a dry (or damp) waterstone (1K, 3K, whatever). Do you flatten your 3k/6K stone?

I saw Virtuovice videos before, he sharpened a barkriver a2 steel bushcraft knife. Which will be quite different than your 'Shun' classic in vg-10. White-compound on leather will probably over convex & create a nasty burr for your Shun knives. Exactly why use newspaper on hard-surface for strop - i.e. less give, thus less convex; finer and less agressive (black ink) better for refinement than abrading metal.

Well, watch my most recent boring video sharpening a Sakon gyuto in vg-10, that's most applicable for your case.
 
I do flatten my stone. I am using a budget method at the moment with a hard flat surface and wet/dry sandpaper.

I looked on youtube to find you but was not successful. Please link me.

Knives are infinitely more complex than I had imagined. Thanks for your guidance.
 
smilesenpai said:
Just read how bad plastic cutting board it. :( Time to get a bamboo board.
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Make sure it's an end-grain bamboo or other end-grain wood board. long-grain bamboo is quite hard, so doesn't take much of a chop to get chips on 60+ hrc kitchen knives.

Some poly-board ain't bad but I prefer 1 solid end-grain wood board. heheh, nitpick on resin/glue.
 
smilesenpai said:
I do flatten my stone. I am using a budget method at the moment with a hard flat surface and wet/dry sandpaper.

I looked on youtube to find you but was not successful. Please link me.

Knives are infinitely more complex than I had imagined. Thanks for your guidance.
Click to expand...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1019769-Sharpening-experiment-Sakon-gyuto-210mm-vg-10

I made a mess in that video, just take away that sharpen VG-10 on 1K, deburr with DMT EE (3 micron), then strop or hone on diamond coated stone. For carbon knives because of fine grain and low(or no) alloy, waterstones would serves you very well.

Yes, knives & sharpening can be complex however with a little curiousity + analytical -> it's simple after some practices.
 
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