Please Help Identify

[Smd189]

Please help me identify this sword I just inherited. The blade is 35" and has no markings. The grip appears to be very worn leather wrapped wood with wire twist. Blade feels thin and very flexible. Thank you.

 

[naturalist]

Seeing your pics and looking at "Swords & Blades of the American Revolution" By George C. Neumann, i see many American Horseman Saber fron late 1700s that similar to yours

 

[horseclover]

Seeing your pics and looking at "Swords & Blades of the American Revolution" By George C. Neumann, i see many American Horseman Saber fron late 1700s that similar to yours

The blade does not fit for the timeline. It may be a reproduction of one such. The condition of the grip and blade do not match the degeneration of the grip. Made to look old is what I would expect. I see too much that just doesn't quite do it for me.

In my opinion of course.

Cheers

GC

 

[mete]

Is the wire wrap iron ? How often is iron used rather than brass ?
The guard has very sharp 90* edges .To me that's not appropriate . Looks like stamped then bent . Modern made to look old ?
Think about all the materials and how they are made .

 

[horseclover]

Iron and mild steel were common in early American sword furbishing, as brass was a less common commodity (indeed a high demand for brass during the 1812 war). As you aptly point out, the hilt stamping is the first thing I noticed weeks ago and shrugged off any real interest. The blade is simply wrong for the timeline as well. There was a fair amount of brass being produced in the Philly area by the early 1800s but not enough for general demand. It is interesting geographically by then that PA makers were hilting some in brass, while Starr and others in CT were using mostly steel and iron.

 

[naturalist]

Is the wire wrap iron ? How often is iron used rather than brass ?
The guard has very sharp 90* edges .To me that's not appropriate . Looks like stamped then bent . Modern made to look old ?
Think about all the materials and how they are made .

The guard called "stirrup". It is different with "D" guard.

 

[horseclover]

Copper wire on this 1750ish Swede steel stirrup. While sharpness of contour can sometimes help date, what I was seeing specifically about the above was the Mickey Mouse ear circle of a quillion. My Swede shows anything but coarseness and we have to remember metalworking was anything but new.

Ya, single strand copper on this one and not something added later.

The Starr 1818 next to it showing what might look like a very modern trend of a cutlery nut but true to the original construction and this was made about 1820 and one of a 10,000 pc order.

If we look at say a Potter of the American Revolution period, one would see something easily reproduced today and an original Potter with as many sharp edges to the hilt.
https://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/images/P/EWSK-1379-Product.jpg

Cheers

GC

 

[Lapedog]

Interesting points above^
Thank you for your expertise.

Something about the OPs sword said reproduction to me. The first thing I thought was actually a prop of some sort for the stage. The words very flexible made me think that too.

 

[horseclover]

Well, originals of that period and genre are quite flexible. Writing flexible is a bit subjective as well. Western swords are quite often a lot more flexible than a katana but some (say a medieval type XVII) extremely stiff. A lot of swords through to the 20th century were quite thick and stiff at the guard, while wafer thick and flexy from the middle to point, especially on sabres. A blade 10mm at the guard, 6mm at the pob, more linear to the sweet spot then reducing from 3-4mm to as little as 1mm<.

Even military swords of the 19th century routinely proofed bending 90 degrees or more. Some bent over a form, others rigged with a weight pressing down on the sword, butt to point. The latter actually a better way to evaluate a modern made sword.

In this shot a circa 1900 sabre bending from the weight of the sword while holding the point.

Cheers

GC

 

[horseclover]

There is also something to be said about having the item in hand for better evaluation. Pictures can only express so much.