Plumb "National" pattern; Hardened poll or not?

O

olybears57

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Aug 25, 2013
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Hey guys. I am referencing plumb's cedar/rafting pattern amalgamations. They came in all weights, and every one I've had in shop has had a soft poll, however, I think I remember someone here saying they had one with a hardened poll? I just picked up a plumb victory in this pattern, whose poll is in exceptional condition.. If it was hardened, it might just end up being my favorite hatchet! I'll check when it arrives.
 
I too am a fan of the cedar pattern shape and these also have a generous (taller than most) poll that lends itself to hardening. Heck they even went so far as to bevel the corners. Looking forward to hear how a file reacts to a Victory model.
 
My plumb BSA (the one that's on every post of mine on the Axe Junkies page lol) shows signs of mushrooming from my grandfather and father.
 
I have several of those plumb cedar patterns including a bsa one. I have noticed that they don't mushroom like a normal axe poll, but they usually don't chip that much either. It seems to me that they were hardened, but not to the same hardness as the bit. I think they are much softer than the bit, but harder than the material around the eye.

There are also some strange patterns in the soft material on these that I think is from a different hardening and tempering process than a normal axe with an unhardened poll. It almost looks like zebra stripes in the steel. I don't know exactly what this is, but I have only noticed it on the plumb cedar pattern heads with beveled polls. Also, it is only evident on the heads that I have soaked in vinegar
 
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I can't seem to find the post but there is a Jersey (I think) that showed some degree of "differential hardening" after a vinegar bath. It looked hardened through the center and normal around the edges. Probably not describing that adequately.


Not being a metal work master I wonder if these Plumbs are hardened similarly? Meaning not quite rafting axe hard but still resistant to striking damage?

I know this one isn't as hard as say a maul's hammer side or a traditional rafting pattern but it doesn't seem to have mushroomed quite like other axes I have or have seen. If it were hardened to the point of what we are calling a rafting axe then it wouldn’t mushroom but rather chip? It's hard to see in the photos but the center line of the poll seems to have kept its bulk with just the edges peening over as opposed to uniform striking damage.

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Another thing I wonder about is that maybe this style was produced over a period of time (and maybe locations) and they ended up with different degrees of hardening. The bevels make me want them to be hardened but maybe Plumb had success with this line and stopped spending the time/resources on hardening or its customers didn’t really say anything about this pattern showing mushrooming. I'd throw it in vinegar and answer my own question but I have grown less fond of the stripped look they have afterwards.

This is all speculation with my only experience being with this one that I keep posting pictures of. I have pawed two others - hatchet size (wish I had bought) and what looked like a boy's axe sized that was on a 26" handle (the guy wouldn't let it be bought...).

They are interesting patterns set apart with those bevels, wider bits, and generous polls, made by Plumb, and not really like anything produced today.

There are some fine looking ones, hung and unhung, that have been posted here that I couldn’t bring myself to use banging on steel wedges to test hardness.

Curious to see what you find out about the Victory one you picked up. They are neat axe patterns regardless of poll hardness.

Straight handles?
 
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ultrahesh said:
I have several of those plumb cedar patterns including a bsa one. I have noticed that they don't mushroom like a normal axe poll, but they usually don't chip that much either. It seems to me that they were hardened, but not to the same hardness as the bit. I think they are much softer than the bit, but harder than the material around the eye.

There are also some strange patterns in the soft material on these that I think is from a different hardening and tempering process than a normal axe with an unhardened poll. It almost looks like zebra stripes in the steel. I don't know exactly what this is, but I have only noticed it on the plumb cedar pattern heads with beveled polls. Also, it is only evident on the heads that I have soaked in vinegar
Click to expand...

Similar experience. What would cause the striping you think?
 
I think possibly that they are hardened to the ideal degree. To be honest, if a sledge hammer or maul chipped off every time it struck metal they would not be very useful tools. Most hammers and mauls that I see are either holding together very well or deforming very slightly, nothing to the degree of an axe poll. I think that this is what you want, a great balance. It could be that these axes are similar, its just that people really seem to have a thing for abusing axe polls!

Most of what I know about smithing is from reading, so I am not claiming personal expertise. However, a professional smith that I know has told me that if a hammer face tends to chip then it has been made too hard. Maybe these Plumb axes are just right?
 
Agent_H said:
Similar experience. What would cause the striping you think?
Click to expand...

I really don't know. It's pure speculation on my part that it has to do with the poll at all. I just know that I have only seen it on the cedar patterns and from my experience, the cedars with the beveled polls are at least somewhat hardened. By no means like a hammer, but harder than a run of the mill axe poll

Something to think about though, what else would leave a stripe pattern in the steel besides difference in hardness?
 
I just pulled out my plumb victory head and it does have chips, but no sign of mushrooming. I haven't given this one the vinegar treatment, but the stripes are evident. There are also dings/dents on the side of the poll
 
Plumbs were made out of homogeneous steel - not with an inserted bit. So even if your poll wasn't hardened at the factory there's no reason why you couldn't harden it now.
 
In 1922, Plumb advertised that their axe heads had a "spring temper" (which is around Rockwell Rc 45?) so that the polls "will not batter or mash" and "will not batter when used for driving wedges or in rough work around the farm."

While the Plumb National axes weren't introduced until around 1948, there was some mention of them being suitable for driving wedges.

Hardware Age - Volume 162, Issues 8-9 - Page 23
https://books.google.com/books?id=y5ETAQAAMAAJ
1948 - ‎Snippet view
"HERE'S THE NEW PLUMB AXE Choppers in all sections of the country were consulted in designing the PLUMB National Axe. Plumb took their preferences and combined them with modern science to produce a practical axe design that ...


New York Forester - Volumes 6-10
https://books.google.com/books?id=qgNOAAAAYAAJ
1949 - ‎Snippet view
...the Plum National axe, a recently-developed pattern that can be safely used for driving wedges as well as for chopping...



1922 advertisement:
books


books


"Head of Plumb Axe has a spring temper. Will not batter or mash."
"You get a head that will not batter when used for driving wedges or in rough work around the farm..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=eCskAQAAMAAJ&dq=%22saturday%20evening%20post%22%201922%20september&pg=RA10-PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false (page 104)
 
Here is another one withe the "striping". And a poll that is dark from the vinegar soak, but has started to mushroom.


 
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