Poison Ivy Question

Mark J

Mark J

Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
2,450
Yup, I was introduced to poison ivy on my last hike (or should I say that the poison ivy introduced itself to me?). One important thing I learned -- I don't want to do that again! While I will certainly look for the plants from now on, I was wondering whether there is any way to "see" the urushiol oil from the plant once it's on something. For example, would shining a UV light on your camping equipment make it show up? Any other ideas?

- Mark (a.k.a. paranoid in Seattle)
 
I am moderately allergic to poison Ivy. I don't fret when I get it on me, I by this soap from burt's bees called gardener's friend it helps reduce itching and heals it faster.

In fact I have some on my ankles as I type. I planted some bamboo roots to block neighbor's veiw of my backyard. had to rub up to some poison ivy.
 
Learn to identify "Jewel Weed' , it usually grows next to poison ivy. Crush up some leaves, rub it on the exposed area, it couneracts the PI.
 
Some other herbal remedies that might be nearby:

Manzanita leaves: brew a strong 'tea' and brush onto affected area
Amole: crush root & apply directly to rash (not in your area, but good for the Californios to know)

Non-herbals:
Apply wet soap to affected area & let dry.
Try washing/rubbing down with rubbing alchol when you've been in the ivy/oak to kill the oils and avoid the rash.
 
DO NOT TRY THIS AT EXTREME THREAT OF DEATH !!!!
That being said I have read where the Indians used to eat the small poison ivy buds in the spring. They ate something like one bud a week for three weeks. It built up the immunity to where for a year they had reduced outbreaks.
I would never do this and again do not advise anyone else too either.
This info is for historical purposes only.
Thanks
Bill
 
I have it right now on both arms and legs.I can have a dream about the stuff and get it!!I have gotten pills and shots after words to knock it down and that works great.My best advise(from a guy who aways gets it,'cause I don't always take MY adivce;) )Long pants and sleeves,wash them after you get home.If you see it wash your body with soap and water within 1/2 hour if at all possible.Wash as soon as you can if over that time.My Doctor is very sensitve also and he's had great luck always washing after wards.

Well got to go take a couple more Prednisone;) . If you got it bad enought see your Doc.once my face was so swollen I could hardly see out my right eye,He gave me a shot that cleared it up THAT NIGHT.:D
 
Living here on the Central Coast of California means lots of poison oak. Forests of the stuff in all forms from vine to bush to grove. I used to get it every year and then I decided it was worth it to stay out of it, lol. If you can't avoid it for whatever reason, get some Tech-nu Oak n Ivy cleansing agent and carry it with you. If you know you've gotten into it with bare skin, use the stuff as directed and it'll remove the oils before they have the opportunity to bond to the skin, which helps to avoid the rash. You can use it to wash down your equipment and it works great. Just make sure to wear protective gear (gloves) while doing so or you run the risk of getting it anyway. The same company also makes a skin guard that you put on before venturing out into the bush. It prevents the oils from reaching the skin and then use the cleansing agent to remove it. It really does help, if it's used correctly and precautions are taken not to re-contaminate youself while cleaning up.
 
The TecNu stuff contains soap and deodorized mineral spirits. And some other stuff. It's pretty expensive really.

The urushiol oils are resinous and very sticky. Regular soap won't touch the stuff, kinda like tar/asphalt. For most people, it takes a day or two for the rash to show up, as what happens is that the oils break down and are absorbed by your skin quite deeply over a day or two period. The allergic reaction is at a fairly deep level under the top layer of skin, under the epidermis and down into the dermis region. Once you see a rash, it's pretty much over, and applying topical treatment is a bandaid/distraction while the allergic reaction runs it's course for a week or two. Topicals can hold down the itching somewhat and are worth using. You can try Calamine (drying agent) and cortisone cream (which might actually help as it's obviously a steroid). If you are really super itchy, the doc can prescribe a 7-10 day course of ingested steroids to help the healing process... but follow the directions and ramp yourself down off them, as sudden stopping of steroids can cause serious harm w/ adrenaline glands, even death in rare circumstances.

Keys, two I can think of:
1. know what the stuff looks like! Three leaves. All I can say is preventive medicine is in knowing what it looks like. Search on poison ivy in Google and you'll find pictures. I can see the stuff flashing at me light a bright light bulb in the outdoors, since I was trained as a boy scout to know what it looks like. Luckily, poison sumac is fairly rare, but looks like regular sumac and often has berries (white or red).
2. use some kind of solvent to get it off you, your gear, your dog, etc. Mineral spirits is probably a big portion of what makes TecNu work ... it's a solvent for the urushiol and so can help to get it liquid-born so you can wash it off. Mineral spirits is cheap at Home Depot, a couple bucks a gallon, and not particularly harmful, sold as "paint thinner".

I don't think there is any way to see the stuff... if it were luminous under UV, you'd be lucky. You could run the experiment and let us know. Just put on some latex gloves and rub the stuff on something like a dark cloth that doesn't luminesce already (test your substrates before hand). Try it under a fluorescent UV bulb (the purple incandescent bulbs don't work well for this kind of luminosity stuff, I know, I tried in analyzing soaps that don't make hunting clothes "glow" in the UV range like most household detergents do since they contain color "brighteners" that work in UV range).

Coincidentally, it turns out just this morning I removed about 3 trashbags of poison ivy and oak from my yard in my new/old house. I used latex gloves to pull the stuff out after poisoning much of it with brush killer (a week ago) to attempt to kill roots first. I should have worn long sleeves in hindsight as the job was 3 times the size I originally thought with long thick roots that ran for many feet under the surface, but in any case, I used TecNu, then blasted my forearms with non-chlorinated solvent out of a spray can (Brake Cleaner). Not the best compromise as it contains some Toluene, and it caused my flesh to burn/sting for a few minutes while I then washed off with soap/water in shower. So TecNu and then heavy duty solvent ... and the experiment is running as of now. I should know by tomorrow or Tuesday if I was able to wash off the oils.
 
Originally posted by counsel-of-record
DO NOT TRY THIS AT EXTREME THREAT OF DEATH !!!!
That being said I have read where the Indians used to eat the small poison ivy buds in the spring. They ate something like one bud a week for three weeks. It built up the immunity to where for a year they had reduced outbreaks.
I would never do this and again do not advise anyone else too either.
This info is for historical purposes only.
Thanks
Bill
Click to expand...

Three leaves a day. Start as early as possible, continue until they're full grown. So said Euell, although I can't remember where.

I'm not going to try it, though. If I touch the stuff I'm borderline bedridden for a week or two. Not so fun.

As above, jewel weed is very easy to identify and works very, very well.

As for answering the original question -- I have no idea. Never bothered to think about it, since it's a pretty noticable plant.
 
Originally posted by rdangerer
The TecNu stuff contains soap and deodorized mineral spirits. And some other stuff. It's pretty expensive really.

The urushiol oils are resinous and very sticky. Regular soap won't touch the stuff, kinda like tar/asphalt.
Click to expand...

I wonder if shampoo would be good for washing the oils off. The shampoo molecule is designed to attach to oil and dirt on one end, and water on the other.
 
I grew up in the Boy Scouts, and really dont remember getting a rash. Now, all I have to do is look at the stuff and I am infected. Here's what works for me:

Avoid the stuff! Sounds simple, and it is. If I am playing golf and hit a ball in the woods, I dont even go in and look for it.

If you do have to go in the woods, dont scratch or rub your face and eyes. It's one thing to get a rash on your arms, but when it gets on your face and in your eyes, it starts getting serious. A couple of years ago, my Sister talked me into planting a garden for her in her back yard. I surveyed the situation, and noticed some Poison Ivy across the fence, growing up a tree in the neighbor's yard. Ok, I see it and will avoid it. I plant the garden and a few days later, I cannot see out of my eyes. Evidently, the vine growing up the tree in the neighbor's yard was also hanging down into my Sister's yard and must have brushed across my face.

Fels Naptha laundry soap does a great job of removing the oils from your skin. If I go into the woods and even suspect I have contacted the stuff, I take a shower and scrub up with the laundry soap. The worst thing that can come from this practice is maybe a little skin drying. Last year, I got talked into metal detecting with a friend on his Father's property. Supposedly, there was a Civil War camp ground located on this property. I dont know about the camp ground, but I do know we were up to our necks in Ivy! We had it brushing against our clothing, our bodies and we even were digging in the roots(the highest concentration of oils is in the roots). First thing I did was race home and take a long shower and scrub up with Fels Naptha soap. Two days later, I only had two little dots of rash on my arm. And that was with the oils on my body for over an hour while I drove home.
 
Originally posted by Burke2
I wonder if shampoo would be good for washing the oils off. The shampoo molecule is designed to attach to oil and dirt on one end, and water on the other.
Click to expand...

Regular surfactants/soaps/detergents won't do it. The oils are too tenaciously sticky. Again, imagine a layer of tar/asphalt or very sticky adhesive stuck to your skin. Soap simply doesn't do enough.

Some kind of solvent, whether a simple hydrocarbon solvent (like mineral spirits/paint thinner, or naphtha) or a more potent solvent like acetone, MEK, or turpentine. I must say that a steady exposure to solvents like these is probably bad for you...for sure, they'll strip all the oils out of your skin and dry/chap them out badly. And they make my flesh sting when I use them, for a few minutes. But that doesn't compare with weeks of ugly itchy rash.

If the FELS Naptha soap works for Danbo, that is worth trying. Especially if actual naptha molecules are left in the mixture, and aren't all converted into surfactant by reaction with, whatever, a base or however they make it (fat + lye was the old formula for soap). I.e., if it smells bad like kerosene/gasoline, that is a good thing.

Here is a link to the TecLabs site, makers of TecNu:
http://www.teclabsinc.com/

Here are some selected snippets from that site:

The rash can begin within a few hours after contact, or it can start three to five days later.

Left untreated, the rash (a typical histamine response) will last three to five weeks.

A: There is no cure for the poison oak or poison ivy rash once it begins, only relief of the symptoms. Once the rash has started, washing with Oak-N-Ivy® Tecnu® Outdoor Skin Cleanser helps remove any free oils, thus allowing the skin's natural healing process to begin without possible recontamination.

itching... can be relieved with over-the-counter anti-itch treatments that contain zinc acetate (such as Calagel®), hydrocortisone (such as CortiCool®) or zinc oxide. In severe cases, a physician can prescribe antihistamine creams, tablets, or shots.

The blisters are the body's natural allergic reaction to poison oak and poison ivy plants. If the blisters break and ooze, the fluid does not contain the oil that causes spreading. Oil from the original contact with poison oak and poison ivy will continue spreading (unless removed) for the first 1 or 2 days. If new areas of rash appear after 3 days, you are getting re-exposed to the plant oil, most likely from contaminated clothing, tools, or even your cat or dog.

Mild cases of poison oak or poison ivy can last 5 to 12 days. More severe cases can last 30 days or longer.

Once the rash appears (i.e., within 1-3 days), the original oil has all bonded to the victim's skin, so it can't be spread to others.

Urushiol Oil does not evaporate and can remain active for a year or longer after being picked up on tools, clothing, animal fur, etc. Use Oak-N-Ivy Brand® Tecnu® Cleanser to remove urushiol from skin, clothing and tools.

Since animals' fur protects their skin from the poison oil, they typically don't develop a rash. However, the oil will remain on their fur and may contaminate you when you touch them.

Urushiol can be carried in the smoke from burning leaves or brush. If you think you have inhaled the oils, see your physician immediately; this can be a very serious condition.

Bleach may appear to be a quick fix to a poison oak or poison ivy rash. However, bleach removes the top layer(s) of your skin. Using it can irritate your skin and in the process weaken it so that the rash may become worse, or it could lead to an infection. Your skin may then become more sensitive to getting the rash in the future.
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By the way, it's the day after my exposure (mostly very light, quick "brushes" of leaves against my forearms, shin, and right knee). So far, so good, but I won't know for sure till late this week if my approach worked.

Here is a funny quote from this site:
http://www.cookforest.com/articles/poisonivy.cfm

Don’t forget to wash everything that may have come into contact with poison ivy, including hats, jackets, shoes, camping accessories, pets, chair legs, and balls. If you don’t, you may be in for a nasty surprise next hunting or fishing season, when you use touch these items later!
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There is a lot of good info on the web regarding poison ivy/oak. I like the Google search engine.
 
I know people who have eaten the leaves and thus gained immunity. The tribes along the Klamath River in N. California used to do this, and were able to use poison oak as a black dye in their basketry without reaction.

A lot of folks around here drink goats' milk from a nanny that grazes on poison oak to get immunity. I've yet to try it, but it's on my 'to do' list.
 
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