pommel taps and dies

[john april]

i bought a tap & die set. i am hoping to thin the tang toward the end and make it round and use the die to cut threads in it to make a removable butt cap with a threaded on finial. will the 1084 be strong enough ? should the 1084 be hardened or annealed when cutting the threads ? if it has to be annealed to cut the threads, should i harden it afterwards ? thanks for any tips.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I always do the threading as the last step. I draw the tang soft to make sure before using the die. Heat the last inch or so to red and let cool to black. Dunk in water, repeat a second time. It should thread easily after that. 1084 will be plenty strong. Another tip is to slightly taper the end of tang so it starts the threads easily.

 

[Lieblad]

.....

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

This is a 10-32 thread in mild steel.



I hooked it up so:



Connected it to a block and tackle in a tree hoist:




And started lifting concrete blocks:

















Then I ran out of blocks, placed them all on the trailer and picked up the trailer. But my battery also went dead in the camera so I have no picture.
I did it.

Whenever I'm putting my take-downs together I tighten them with vise grips.

What is very important is to make sure that if your knives are forged you pay close attention to reducing heat grain reduction and normalizing post-forging.
You want ultra tiny grain and a spherodized structure for threading.

Don't be scared.

 

[john april]

thank you guys

 

[Mahoney]

calculated yield strength of a "mild steel" 10-32 screw in tension is between 565 and 635 lbs depending on the grade of the steel. I would expect properly normalized high carbon knife steel to perform even better.

Also, FWIW the tangs on most of our "fight worthy" broadsword inventory are threaded M6X1.0, only 45% bigger in cross sectional root area than 10-32

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

I've heard of guys drilling a hole through the lower part of the tang, grinding down a bolt, drilling a hole in the head of the bolt, and then cut a slot down through the middle(width-wise) of the hole. Then grind the part on the tang where the hole is a little bit until it slides into the slot you cut on the bolt head. Finally you pin the tang to the bolt head. Then you wouldn't have to weld or thread anything. It'll also afford you some latitude in the tang hole by being able to swivel the two pieces until they fit.

What I'm wondering is if there's a way to make a decent pommel nut without a lathe...

 

[Del Raso Knives]

I've heard of guys drilling a hole through the lower part of the tang, grinding down a bolt, drilling a hole in the head of the bolt, and then cut a slot down through the middle(width-wise) of the hole. Then grind the part on the tang where the hole is a little bit until it slides into the slot you cut on the bolt head. Finally you pin the tang to the bolt head. Then you wouldn't have to weld or thread anything. It'll also afford you some latitude in the tang hole by being able to swivel the two pieces until they fit.

What I'm wondering is if there's a way to make a decent pommel nut without a lathe...

You can make finial nuts easy if you have a drill press. The most critical procedure is getting the hole for your tap in the middle of your round bar. This is easily done by chucking the round bar in the drill head rather than in your vice. Use the vice to hold the appropriate size drill and lower the rod onto it. This allows you to drill accurately as the drill point self centres.

You can leave the rod in the drill and use files to shape it as it spins and then tap. Alternately you can tap the rod first and then hold the tap screwed into the rod in the chuck. Turn the drill on and shape your final.

I generally leave a sacrificial section on the end that I can slot for a screw driver or grab with vice grips. This allows you to assemble and disassemble easily. This section can be cut or ground off after final assembly. A cross hole will work as well if you want to make a take down version.

I did this for years until I splashed out and got a small lathe. Hope this works for you.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Yeah, but what do you do when you want them to be REALLY strong, Karl...?

This is a 10-32 thread in mild steel.



I hooked it up so:



Connected it to a block and tackle in a tree hoist:




And started lifting concrete blocks:

















Then I ran out of blocks, placed them all on the trailer and picked up the trailer. But my battery also went dead in the camera so I have no picture.
I did it.

Whenever I'm putting my take-downs together I tighten them with vise grips.

What is very important is to make sure that if your knives are forged you pay close attention to reducing heat grain reduction and normalizing post-forging.
You want ultra tiny grain and a spherodized structure for threading.

Don't be scared.