POOR customer service

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I agree that the use of "never" is almost "never" a good idea, and in this case inaccurate. I also agree with the sentiment that your comments, and others, discuss the drapes while ignoring the elephant that is dropping a steamer in the middle of the room.

I cannot speak for others, but I DON'T WANT S!K TO FAIL. I think most people posting here want S!K to succeed and fulfill its obligations. I like u Silver. For u to draw an us vs them line about "want the company to succeed" is inaccurate and out of line. U know better. I want everyone to get what they paid for. I don't want to see u lose ur money. I also want any new customers to understand the risks (which r VERY real and big) before buying a knife.

While S!K makes nice (not great imho) knives and sells them cheap, they have had a lot of problems from very near the beginning. From where I sit, things don't appear to be getting better.
 
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Probably because when the SK ship sinks and takes a ton of peoples money it brings the entire knife world down a peg. All of the customers that get burned will be very hesitant to order from the next knife maker who might actually deserve their business.

Some people would rather not see another couple thousand people that might be currently unaware of the severe issues with Survive! throw their money down the toilet.

Think about it, somehow they burned through all of their cash and couldn't afford to hire help to train to increase the output. They do not make a single part of the knife, sharpen, affix handles, box, and ship. Using a grinder isn't rocket science nor take years to train someone.

They certainly had no problem spending 100k on a defunct turn of the century hotel. Who goes real estate shopping when your so far in the hole and behind schedule? Wouldn't that money be better utilized on things like training new employees so your customer can have what they PAID FOR in a reasonable time frame? Then to take out a secured loan and burn through that to the point where they won't refund their customers and still sell things that don't exist?

Maybe there is more to it than just a 'terrible business model' They are long past the point of being able to claim bad luck or a couple bad decisions or pass the buck to bad suppliers, slow delivery etc. They are inept and cannot manage their business cash flow. Transferring business assets (money) to another business to buy real estate when you have no way to fulfill your customer commitments will land you in a lot of hot water.

When you cannot afford to satisfy your current commitments and still take in orders knowing this then that is fraud.
 
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if people who want the company to succeed are called out on being overly optimistic to a fault, I think the standard should be set on both sides of the argument.
ncrockclimb ncrockclimb If you're referring to my quote above, I did not mean to draw a line between you and I specifically. No disrespect to you. I strongly believe that there are enough people posting in this thread and posting about S!K else where that truly want the company to fail. At least that's how I interpret some of what I read. As I read, a lot seems to come from folks who are not current customers and seem to want S!K only to refund customers and disappear. You know I want the knives I've paid for, but NOT at the expense of someone who doesn't know what he's getting into.
 

gonebad395

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ncrockclimb ncrockclimb If you're referring to my quote above, I did not mean to draw a line between you and I specifically. No disrespect to you. I strongly believe that there are enough people posting in this thread and posting about S!K else where that truly want the company to fail. At least that's how I interpret some of what I read. As I read, a lot seems to come from folks who are not current customers and seem to want S!K only to refund customers and disappear. You know I want the knives I've paid for, but NOT at the expense of someone who doesn't know what he's getting into.


Silver needle as long as I have been reading here you have been a better voice to this forum then the owners and that's awesome. When I put my order in I was stupid and new here. After some reading from you on the positive side and others from the negative side I stayed the line for a bit but the more and more I read I got a refund and picked my knife up elsewhere.

Now that being said I really belive that all the recent news about survive is something that needs to be addressed. If not then a new customer x is giving money to survive to fund customer c order that ordered was placed over 6 months ago
And that's just wrong.
Also with lancalots info true or not it paints a picture that survive is rich in assets poor in cash so refunds have been slowed down due to funds to pay. And customers have had to resort to pp to get refunds lately.
Now if the rich in assets poor in cash is true and we don't know because survive has went silent ignoring customers request with silence is crappy.
Also this loan giving to survive by lancealot is just that a loan and has already been extended by him because survive couldn't pay it back in the allotted time. So he has dogs in this fight. With that he came here with a post saying he talked to guy well he might have. And the post that he said guy told him he could pass along to us was a post of( I know that did wrong but I loaned them money and think they are moving in the right direction so I would stay fast and not ask for a refund.)
Because everyone asking for a refund due to their bs is killing the account they needed to build knives from a year ago.
So guy decided that talking to him a man that loaned the company money and ask him to or allow him to post here about the conversation is how guy handles this? I would bet that the money that funded yesterday's knives is more then that loan . And today's customers have to wait for tomorrow's customers for their loan to be made right. So to have guy only a dress his seems funny.

Now some are saying why survive wont come here to respond. Some say it won't do any good, it's a witch hunt, etc etc. but the fact is their Facebook account are getting the same questions.
They seem to have abandoned this forum and the last few that support them. You know to fight their fight.
 

Casinostocks

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I would rather have Lancelot comment on this issue because he is the secured lender, but I felt compelled to interject again to correct some factually inaccurate statements that GoneBad above and some other posters are making! Lance has been very kind to reach out to me privately and we have had a few email message exchanged and he was kind enough to confide in me the amount of the said loan plus the term. So please allow me make those corrections before this becomes a runaway train rife with the "sky has already fallen" speculative statements:

A- I am not going to be specific for confidentiality reasons, but the loan sum although not small by any means, is not something that a better business model could not have rather easily obtained from the local bank or the SBA, and to me it does not seem that Survive! if truly rich in assets, sold out the farm to Lance based on the purported amount (this statement is purely subjective based on my own past business "unsecured" borrowings just based on personal guarantees).

B- More crucially: Lance had never intimated that Survive! had in fact defaulted on the said loan so again the rampant speculative statements are running wild here by the detractors. If you read what he had written, he had clearly said that he approached Survive! in the last Q of 2016 when he became enamored with another maker's D3V HT and decided that it was a worthwhile cause (to both Lance and S!) to engage in some form of private equity investment (perhaps not the best terminology, but same semantics). Further, he had stated that he could accelerate the loan's repayment if he wanted to (as every lender private or institutional could). Lance never said that he was going to do that and in fact whatever assurances he has received from Guy and the behind the scenes talks, he may even consider extending the terms. Now, he's the lender and quite frankly none of us: me, you, we; are going to be privy to the terms between a private lender and a private borrower. If you don't like this, well too darn bad.

Why am I putting so much time and effort into this mess? Primarily because I have gained quite a few invaluable friendships on with those whom I cherish being friends with. These friends on average have about $1K - $2K vested with Survive! on preorders or any other term which Survive! uses for taking money upfront in lieu of knives it has not yet made or totally assembled. I would love to see these fiends being made whole and I certainly am not the type who would wish for them to learn a valuable lesson by losing their hard earned moneys. Curse me if you will for my benevolent liberal nature :rolleyes:

Otherwise, I don't know why I keep coming into the mix? Perhaps I have a proclivity for train wrecks or perhaps my benevolent nature is the antithesis of those who seem to be cheering for crash and burn. The Yin and Yang, if you will! I personally own no GSOs, I have sold them all (mostly with a little profit) gifted the last one to an Ex since I found the knife too diminutive, will most likely never buy another GSO or S!K as I have taken my business elsewhere that the maker satisfies my personal needs and his products are superior IMHO. Some of my fiends who are more proficient knife enthusiasts do not necessarily agree with me on this last statement but we all understand both objectivity and subjectivity. This is precisely why I would like to see Survive! get their act to gather and indeed survive, because they do serve a purpose even if many find their products to be a lot of hype. To many others, S! has so far produced (via mostly outsourcing right here in the USA) very good knives at very good prices.
 

Casinostocks

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Skystorm: you do not factually know if "they" used the cash from Survive!'s preorder funds to purchase that commercial RE and you do not know for any vestige of facts that they purchased it in entirety for cash and for what exact amount. Again, you have made purely speculative statements which you habitually pass around as cold hard facts. I am only going to comment on this issue again with respect to what I had just "essayed" in my previous post for the protection of the friends who have significant amounts of their monies tied up in Survive! preorder:

If what Skystorm is speculating turns out to be factual and if there have been cross-correlation of funds and activities between Survive! LLC and any other business venture by its Principals, you may have a legitimate cause for recourse if Survive! should fail and file for BK protection. Upon such an unfortunate event, some of you would be best advised to band together for legal representation.

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer!
 

Pilot1

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I don't understand why people buy knives with such a long lead time, and questionable CS, when there are other knives available that are just as good that are in stock, and ship quickly. There are many custom knife makers here, and/or other companies that have great knives that are widely available NOW. Why go through the heartburn?
 

Casinostocks

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^ price and perceived value. For some people that extra $70-$100 difference in between a D3V GSO-6 / GSO-7/7 and a FBF 3V Camp Knife, makes a huge difference. Not trying too be cute or clever with my answer, just an honest one since you asked. I personally would not, but a lot of other people evidently would based on all the great reviews that S! had received at the beginning from its customers and YT reviewers.
 
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Actually I have quite a few facts. I have an attorney and a private investigator on retainer and I will share those facts when it becomes prudent to do so. For several reasons Survive! has the misfortune of having my undivided attention and I have no problem spending considerable resources (mine, not borrowed) to that end. I have no interest in attempting to convert the remaining loyalists or people who build add ons to their products, everyone has their favorite cause they will defend even when they are standing in quicksand. I'm simply interested in not having any new people from falling into the hole with you when it all goes under.



Skystorm: you do not factually know if "they" used the cash from Survive!'s preorder funds to purchase that commercial RE and you do not know for any vestige of facts that they purchased it in entirety for cash and for what exact amount. Again, you have made purely speculative statements which you habitually pass around as cold hard facts. I am only going to comment on this issue again with respect to what I had just "essayed" in my previous post for the protection of the friends who have significant amounts of their monies tied up in Survive! preorder:

If what Skystorm is speculating turns out to be factual and if there have been cross-correlation of funds and activities between Survive! LLC and any other business venture by its Principals, you may have a legitimate cause for recourse if Survive! should fail and file for BK protection. Upon such an unfortunate event, some of you would be best advised to band together for legal representation.

Caveat: I'm not a lawyer!
 

gonebad395

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I would rather have Lancelot comment on this issue because he is the secured lender, but I felt compelled to interject again to correct some factually inaccurate statements that GoneBad above and some other posters are making! Lance has been very kind to reach out to me privately and we have had a few email message exchanged and he was kind enough to confide in me the amount of the said loan plus the term. So please allow me make those corrections before this becomes a runaway train rife with the "sky has already fallen" speculative statements:

A- I am not going to be specific for confidentiality reasons, but the loan sum although not small by any means, is not something that a better business model could not have rather easily obtained from the local bank or the SBA, and to me it does not seem that Survive! if truly rich in assets, sold out the farm to Lance based on the purported amount (this statement is purely subjective based on my own past business "unsecured" borrowings just based on personal guarantees).

B- More crucially: Lance had never intimated that Survive! had in fact defaulted on the said loan so again the rampant speculative statements are running wild here by the detractors. If you read what he had written, he had clearly said that he approached Survive! in the last Q of 2016 when he became enamored with another maker's D3V HT and decided that it was a worthwhile cause (to both Lance and S!) to engage in some form of private equity investment (perhaps not the best terminology, but same semantics). Further, he had stated that he could accelerate the loan's repayment if he wanted to (as every lender private or institutional could). Lance never said that he was going to do that and in fact whatever assurances he has received from Guy and the behind the scenes talks, he may even consider extending the terms. Now, he's the lender and quite frankly none of us: me, you, we; are going to be privy to the terms between a private lender and a private borrower. If you don't like this, well too darn bad.

Why am I putting so much time and effort into this mess? Primarily because I have gained quite a few invaluable friendships on with those whom I cherish being friends with. These friends on average have about $1K - $2K vested with Survive! on preorders or any other term which Survive! uses for taking money upfront in lieu of knives it has not yet made or totally assembled. I would love to see these fiends being made whole and I certainly am not the type who would wish for them to learn a valuable lesson by losing their hard earned moneys. Curse me if you will for my benevolent liberal nature :rolleyes:

Otherwise, I don't know why I keep coming into the mix? Perhaps I have a proclivity for train wrecks or perhaps my benevolent nature is the antithesis of those who seem to be cheering for crash and burn. The Yin and Yang, if you will! I personally own no GSOs, I have sold them all (mostly with a little profit) gifted the last one to an Ex since I found the knife too diminutive, will most likely never buy another GSO or S!K as I have taken my business elsewhere that the maker satisfies my personal needs and his products are superior IMHO. Some of my fiends who are more proficient knife enthusiasts do not necessarily agree with me on this last statement but we all understand both objectivity and subjectivity. This is precisely why I would like to see Survive! get their act to gather and indeed survive, because they do serve a purpose even if many find their products to be a lot of hype. To many others, S! has so far produced (via mostly outsourcing right here in the USA) very good knives at very good prices.

Ok casino since you two have became besties you can tell us all. So a guy shows up shortly after news of a fire that involves guy and survive. After which a lot of complaints of no contact or stopped contact on refunds have happen. He Tells us he's a investor in survive and that he believes survive is rich in assets poor in cash. And that he's decided to extent the loan that hasent been paid back. Then continues to tell us that he could do this or that with the loan but belives in survive. Then tells us I wouldn't jump ship yet because Asking for refunds is hurting survive. Well casino hell yes he saying don't ask for refunds he loaned a group of people money that can't run a business. Agian they took yesterday's money to pay for today and are asking for more to pay for tomorrow.
I don't care if he's a lawyer a judge hell sits on the Supreme Court. In the eyes of a lot of us he loaned money to a scam. And with everything happening with survive he is here to smoke screen or save his own ass. You think If survive bellies up he will see a dime? You think if survives bellies up the people waiting a year two years will see a dime or a knife? If so your a fool and as you have stated above you have already left you let us known that the new maker is better and meets your needs. I would bet those needs are knives that aren't 3,21, years out. But we all know it was because the writings on the wall. just a few need to lose money to make sure it's real. You already jumped ship as stated above in your post hopeyou threw a life vest to those invaluable friends you made here before jumped.
 
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Actually I have quite a few facts. I have an attorney and a private investigator on retainer and I will share those facts when it becomes prudent to do so. For several reasons Survive! has the misfortune of having my undivided attention and I have no problem spending considerable resources (mine, not borrowed) to that end. I have no interest in attempting to convert the remaining loyalists or people who build add ons to their products, everyone has their favorite cause they will defend even when they are standing in quicksand. I'm simply interested in not having any new people from falling into the hole with you when it all goes under.
You're paying 2 different professionals to look into SURVIVE! ?
You won't say why?

Your goal is to make sure SURVIVE! gains no new customers?
 
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A customer is someone who pays a set sum for a product or service. What Survive! is looking for are daily zero interest individual micro loans to fund 2 year old outstanding orders. Which is why you do not start a manufacturing business with zero equipment or dollars unless you can afford to work the next several years for free which excludes about 99% of people who work for a living.


You're paying 2 different professionals to look into SURVIVE! ?
You won't say why?

Your goal is to make sure SURVIVE! gains no new customers?
 

braillediver

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gonebad395:
When I put my order in I was stupid and new here.
This right there, That shouldn't continue to happen. The fact that survive! knives is here on BladForums infers a level of competency and responsibility as a company. Their actions haven't shown that. New people shouldn't be misled about the companies continuing problems, failure to deliver and potential collapse.

So yeah I have a motive- To clearly inform new members of survive! knives continuing delivery problems and running ponzi scheme. We should be encouraging new members to succeed by setting an example and helping them when necessary.
 
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You're paying 2 different professionals to look into SURVIVE! ?
You won't say why?

Your goal is to make sure SURVIVE! gains no new customers?

A customer is someone who pays a set sum for a product or service. What Survive! is looking for are daily zero interest individual micro loans to fund 2 year old outstanding orders. Which is why you do not start a manufacturing business with zero equipment or dollars unless you can afford to work the next several years for free which excludes about 99% of people who work for a living.
Despite the definition of customer, you won't speak to what you said earlier?
 

Casinostocks

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Skystorm: I was always intrigued as to why you are so obsessed with Survive! and if I may, I always thought that your obsession with them went above and beyond the norm of activism on here displayed by long term members who often seriously caution newbies or those who drank the koolaid, to never pre-pay for a knife. I certainly look forward to reading about any factual evidences which your atty / PI find on Guy / Survive!

Lest I forget, from the auctions you ran on your previously owned GSOs on eBay, you made out with at least 30% and often in excess of 50% on your preowned GSOs. Two points spring to mind immediately which make me seriously question your inferred samaritan type commitment to the knife community on here:

Although I have nothing against profit making, why didn't you consider selling your GSOs on here for a bit less to the end users from here and again, why don't you pay up the $75 to re-up your maker's membership fees on here which is an insignificant amount as compared to retainer fees to an atty / PI to shine a light up someone's else you-know-what. If you are really committed to BFC, those are really simple steps. FYI, I sold all my GSOs on here for far less than I have seen them for selling both on here and over there on the Bay!

You make me scratch me head!
 
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I thought I was pretty clear. Yes I am paying two different firms to provide two different but related services. I'm not sure if I can make it clearer than that.


Despite the definition of customer, you won't speak to what you said earlier?
 

Eagle Scout

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All very interesting reading. I've no dog in the fight here and would never route against a small American business, given all the challenges.

Based on the current information available, buying into this situation is simply not a consideration for me at this time.

This thread is about "poor customer service". With that, does anyone have thoughts or experience on sending an existing knife in for warranty service or replacement?

The prices on the secondary market for these knives seem high when you factor in the possible ownership risk associated with lack of support. The website has a lifetime warranty promise. Am also reading that much of the production is outsourced, which helps to create all these "ugly" seconds that don't seem to have much wrong cosmetically. Makes me wonder if they are heat treat issues, or worse.

I'm hesitant to buy one used, not knowing if the manufacturer can respond to a warranty or service issue. I'm suspicious about the "ugly" seconds since so many are released/marketed for sale given that the bulk of the process is outsourced with known issues.

Seems like a risky proposition either way. Hope I'm just being too cautious at this point and can someday buy one knowing everything is GTG.
 

Casinostocks

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GB: "besties" is not a term used by people from my generation but I understand the vernacular in this context. After doing some due diligence on Lance, I am of the opinion that he is telling the truth as much as he's best advised to divulge on here. I have not seen the promissory note and I would not advise you to PDF it and link up to it on here. If we were "friends" prior to his decision to make an investment, I would have also advised him negatively. Further, I do not see anything wrong with people trying to protect and to preserve their own interests as long as it does not mislead others. In none of the Lance's postings since, I have read him suggesting that people continue placing new orders in a faithfully blind manner. All he is saying and suggesting is that for those who have stayed the course so far and their wait extends beyond the TOS of their CC or the PP's 180 days recourse, it is in his best judgement to stay the course.

Now onto the nitty gritty of a business being illiquid, bankruptcies, liquidation, etc... I am not an attorney and I do not have the time to look up BK laws in ID where Survive! and its Principals are located. Although BK is within the Constitutional rights of a citizen and / or business entities, State's laws often take precedence over Federal laws with that regard. Will a private equity lender like Lance see a dime of his money in case S! goes bye-bye, you asked? The answer is yes, he will most likely see some of his inve$ted money before other unnerved creditors do. Will the customers and other unsecured creditors, you had asked. The answer is highly unlikely because by definition the court appointed BK Trustee is the super creditor whose job is to pay the secured creditors first and foremost, which also includes the Trustee as they all get a percentage for the State's coffers. It may sound brutally harsh, but in a Capitalist system business fail all the time and in fact the best of the best of Venture Capitalists out of Silicon valley know that 1/3 of their ventures will be completely wiped out, 1/3 will be lucky to come to breaking even and they aspire for the other 1/3 to be the next Air BnB, Uber, yada, yada...

When I jumped as you had termed it, I did so because I am so impatient that I would not even wait 1 year let alone 2-3 years. Even my currently fave maker if opened the books for an order which may take over 12 months, I would probably balk and take my chances in the open sales despite the fact that they do not offer any concurrent orders, are ardently against preorders and only offer so because of the crazy current demand plus they are always present on their forum to answer questions, address upcoming projects and so forth. IMO, procedure matter and therefore I am not in total agreement with those who use the "never-ever" blanket generalization. FYI, I did encourage some of my friends on here to come over there to check things out. A few did and few other did not. So?
 
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A. Obsession would be the wrong term.

B. In order to properly calculate what you say I 'made' off selling them off you would first have to know what I paid for them. Assumption's aren't facts. From your posts I gather your are articulate and intelligent enough to already understand that.

C. Please point out the BF rule that states I need to sell at a loss on this sub forum to certain individuals that I do not even like so they can later flip them themselves.

D. I haven't logged in since January, Thank you for the continual reminder that I am somehow immediately required to renew my membership at your direction. I don't think the BF will fall over dead while waiting on me.

E. What and where you sell your property is entirely up to you. Unlike you I don't feel the need to dictate what or where you sell your property because 1. It's none of my business and 2. I simply do not care.


Skystorm: I was always intrigued as to why you are so obsessed with Survive! and if I may, I always thought that your obsession with them went above and beyond the norm of activism on here displayed by long term members who often seriously caution newbies or those who drank the koolaid, to never pre-pay for a knife. I certainly look forward to reading about any factual evidences which your atty / PI find on Guy / Survive!

Lest I forget, from the auctions you ran on your previously owned GSOs on eBay, you made out with at least 30% and often in excess of 50% on your preowned GSOs. Two points spring to mind immediately which make me seriously question your inferred samaritan type commitment to the knife community on here:

Although I have nothing against profit making, why didn't you consider selling your GSOs on here for a bit less to the end users from here and again, why don't you pay up the $75 to re-up your maker's membership fees on here which is an insignificant amount as compared to retainer fees to an atty / PI to shine a light up someone's else you-know-what. If you are really committed to BFC, those are really simple steps. FYI, I sold all my GSOs on here for far less than I have seen them for selling both on here and over there on the Bay!

You make me scratch me head!
 

Casinostocks

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Having some fun with you Sky because you don't clench your elbows close to your body to protect it for the ribcage shots ;) Would be fun though to see you cough up that 75, although we both agree that BFC will live another day without. Double ;)

Look, this atmosphere on here is very toxic already. NC and I have PM'd and although we are on the opposite side of the fence on certain things, we also wonder as to why we can't stay away from a train wreck. I had already stated up thread that I have a proclivity for train wrecks!

But jesting aside, sometimes those folks currently without any skin in game can opine with cooler heads, I reckon. The ones who have stuck it through have already been beaten to a pulp and are loyal to a fault. Survive! is doing these people a disservice by staying mum irrespective of their own current personal plight. Their loyal customers like SN deserve much better, much much better.
 
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