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Discussion in 'Survive! Knives' started by Ramojung, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. scout1sg

    scout1sg

    925
    Nov 9, 2009
    I believe the idea of one model run at a time would have been best, its certainly worked for Jerry Busse. Of course I also have the belief that if you are going to start a business you have to expect to be working in the "black" for a short term, maybe even the first several years so that means you should secure proper funding/lending with a sound business plan and not have it funded by the share holders (us), again this is speculation and there probably was some form of lending/financing (i.e. Lancelot and maybe others).
     
  2. LtSauce

    LtSauce

    24
    Mar 11, 2016
    I've been sitting here watching as a bystander for most of this time. As such, I'd like to point out that this whole thing is based all on speculation by people who have not even visited them, nor have any stake in anything Survive! Knives does.

    Originally, posts were calling out for answers. When they got an answer from Lancelot, some stated how they can't trust anything Lancelot states because he isn't even staff from Survive! Knives(from what I understood).

    They then asked staff to acknowledge it themselves(or demanded more so). So staff comes in and gives a response. These same people proceed to flat out call them liars.

    It seems to me many of the original people posting negative things here have done it out of fear or with malice and with the purpose of undermining this company.

    Just as what Silver Eagle was doing, it seems some of the people flooding this forum with negative comments are doing so with an intention to rally as many people as possible to issue refunds, and if possible, put them out of business.

    Many of the people who purchased knives from Survive did so with an understanding that the knives might take longer to make. Estimates are just what they are stated to be; estimates.

    These same people are now being scared into withdrawing due to speculation from what seems like people who just don't like Survive! Knives or how they run their business.

    An estimate isn't a promise nor is it a contract written in blood. What is for sure though is although there has always been a wait(some longer than others) they still haven't failed to deliver(though there really might come a time when they can't anymore due to pure speculation).
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    Silver Needle, XtianAus and Oyster like this.
  3. scout1sg

    scout1sg

    925
    Nov 9, 2009
    This is simply one thread among the sub forum, yes some negative comments, some positive, and some of us just are speculating and sharing our thoughts or myself who remains very neutral but interested to hear thoughts and feedback from others. I like their knives, enjoy using them, I want to see them succeed but I also have my concerns (anyone who has hundreds or thousands of dollars vested into them should). As far as visiting Survive, I'd enjoy that very much if given the opportunity. Yes at some point the thread may be moved to the GBU sub-forum but until so members are free to share their thoughts, opinions and concerns.
     
    murderedsongbird likes this.
  4. Hubmonkey

    Hubmonkey

    19
    Aug 23, 2015
    Many of the people who purchased knives from Survive did so with an understanding that the knives might take longer to make. Estimates are just what they are stated to be; estimates.

    Really? Do you seriously think that anyone would have put their money down knowing that they would not receive what they paid for for 2.5 YEARS? I know I sure would not have done that. They mislead us from the beginning and now 2.5 years down the road we can only hope we will get what we paid for. Yes my order was placed in April of 2015 and I still don't have my knife.
     
    JackKnives, palonej, Lozza and 5 others like this.
  5. chiral.grolim

    chiral.grolim Universal Kydex Sheath Extension Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 2, 2008
    I placed a Starter order in early 2015 for >$1,000 expecting production to take perhaps 6 months per model but also expecting the company to run into delays (as always), and that order included the GSO-12 way back in line, so yes I was anticipating at least 3 years before all of my orders were fulfilled.

    I expected my GSO-5.1 to take about 6 months, and from the close of the Starter until delivery, there was ~7months. The next knife (4.7) took 9 months more. The next (4.1) is nearing 12 months more. Did I think it would take this long to arrive? Nope. Am I pissed that it has taken this long to arrive? Nope. Those were "Starter" orders which Survive! explicitly stated were a form of "investment" in the company. You had the option to buy a knife at a big discount or buy shop-credit, and I elected the former.

    Now the (not even close to) 90-day factory 2nds are a different story, but I have both a 4.1 f.2 on order as well as a 4LE f.2 on order as of recently to test the company's delivery time-frame for improvements.
    I also see that Millit Knives has 3.5 blanks on hand and is grinding them, so the SK-3.5 may be coming out sooner than I ever expected! Something to watch...
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    Riz! likes this.
  6. dragfree

    dragfree

    37
    Sep 6, 2015
    No. Such claims are irresponsible, unfounded speculation at best and malicious defamation at worst. Given that some of the trolls here persist in making such claims despite debunking, their malicious intent is painfully obvious.
     
    Silver Needle likes this.
  7. shinyedges

    shinyedges Unfaltering Love & Undeviating Will Platinum Member

    Jun 5, 2012
    What was debunked? People waiting for years? Survive using current sales to fill old orders? Please I'd like to know when these things were "debunked".
     
    BBuser, palonej, gonebad395 and 7 others like this.
  8. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    Today, Adventure Sworn has no knives in stock. Eleven models - each "Sold Out." So they seem to sell knives they have and not sell knives they don't have. Custom orders are "closed."
     
    palonej and Riz! like this.
  9. Thomas Linton

    Thomas Linton

    Jun 16, 2003
    "Is it an Accepted Fact that survive! knives can not survive unless they sell new knives to finance the production of knives already paid for?"

    Some do not accept it.

    Some, absolutely reject it.

    Some consider that known facts justify the conclusion. They, I guess, "accept it" as accurate. "Circumstantial evidence" is still evidence.

    No one posting here outside Survive! Knives knows why written commitments on timing of delivery of goods are routinely not kept.

    That's why I asked - as did you.

    As a statement of claimed fact, it could be defamatory if it's not true. But recovery in an action in court would require proven damage to Survive!'s reputation caused by the statement, as opposed to some other cause(s), and proof that the statement was made knowing it was false or with reckless disregard for its accuracy.

    Interestingly, some states now allow an action for negligent statements of fact that cause injury, whether those statements are positive or negative - a relatively new state of the law.

    Bottom line, statements of fact should be accurate -- something that used to be a matter of expected behavior -- except for politicians. Say as a matter of fact that a company is going under - or is reliable - and you could get successfully sued.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  10. Riz!

    Riz!

    May 5, 2014
    Thats exactly what I was getting at. Had they charged more to start with, slowly increased production numbers and reinvested properly, they would be competing with those companies. When Spartan blades first hit the scene their knives were never in stock. You had to be as fast as an old west, quickdraw gunfighter on the buy button to get em whenthey were in stock. They grew correctly, charged what their knoves were actually worth and reinvested properly. Now you can pretty much always get one of whichever model you want. Its a shame that Survive! Didnt do the same.

    Adventure Sworn seems to only sells knives that are in house, having the handles affixed and finished. Then they are on the way out the door. So they are charging for a knife that actually exists at the time of the transfer of funds. They just finish the handle and send em out. Their custom books are closed. They only advertise knives for sale when they know they are about to be finished
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    Silver Needle and Organic556 like this.
  11. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    And that is exactly how a production knife company should be run. The company invests in the product and only sells it when the product exists. Reinvest the profits into the company to grow. This is business 101.

    Custom is a different story but even a good custom maker won't ask for all the funds up front. Imagine if we had a custom maker on here doing what survive is doing, or a service provider.

    And just to add not responding to emails or phone calls like they claim and not refunding money in a timely manner or at all. These things have not been "debunked" unless we are to believe all those who have made those claims here are deceitful.
     
  12. Hubmonkey

    Hubmonkey

    19
    Aug 23, 2015
    Please don't use their incorrect term of investment, there are no dividends being paid to me for buying a knife at a whopping 10% discount. The starter program is nothing more and pre-sale to all the folks that bought a knife.
     
    palonej, winger51, gonebad395 and 4 others like this.
  13. Torch76

    Torch76

    211
    Nov 1, 2015
    Refund processed on Friday for the knives I ordered 2+ years ago. It took 9 weeks, but I did get it. They were utterly unresponsive to my concerns/experience until I started posting them in this thread. That said, they did issue the credit. I truly hope they can pull themselves together in the coming months.
     
  14. zakjak221

    zakjak221 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 3, 2010
    9 weeks!
    That's a long time to ignore a customer...who paid U 100% up front & waited over 2 years!
     
    palonej, BBuser, gonebad395 and 3 others like this.
  15. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    Sure it's been a long time for a lot to get their refunds, but guess what? It looks like refunds are being issued now...

    [​IMG]
     
    MarriedTheMedic likes this.
  16. Skystorm

    Skystorm A Cow Flayin' Sheath Making Angry Gnome

    Oct 17, 2011
    I must have slept through the college course, Screw the customer 101, that said it was ok to ignore your customers refund request for months. I mean as long as you eventually get around to issuing it well then everything is just peachy.



     
    Lozza and moshow9 like this.
  17. LukeTheSpook

    LukeTheSpook

    Jan 2, 2015
    Skystorm, you might be 100% right in this whole thing but man, you are coming off terrible. I mean, you sound so nasty and negative. I'd really like to know the real story behind this. It's so personal and it seems like you've been hurt bad.

    Watch your karma, man. Bad mouthing something this much can't be good for yours.
     
    91bravo, Lozza, MDPete and 2 others like this.
  18. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time. I would think that refunds being issued are a step in the right direction? Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong...
     
  19. zakjak221

    zakjak221 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 3, 2010
    Torch also said he didn't get a response from Survive until he started posting in this thread...so is that taking care of customer or shutting him up?
     
    Organic556 likes this.
  20. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    [​IMG]
     
    MarriedTheMedic and CataD like this.
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