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power hammer or roll forge?
- Thread starter Paliden
- Start date
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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A rolling mill would be great if you make damascus, but you would still need a hammer to do the billets.....so if only one - make a hammer. When you really need one, you will find the space for a rolling mill.
thanks, Damascus is something that i would like to try, thus the desire to build one of these tools. space however is at a premium in my little 12x20 shop. i do have most of the materials for either but wanted to know which you more experienced gents would suggest. thanks bladsmth for the reply. i thought of posting pics of the build as a wip if anyone would be interested. thanks again.
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A power hamer will be more versatile and a rolling mill will be more specialized.
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If you have to ask, its power hammer all the way. In fact, only in a highly specialized setup do I see a rolling mill in a shop without a power hammer, and that assumes forging presses are there also.
Now you could ask; Forging Press or Power Hammer?
A press is much easier to construct than a well functioning hammer, and is more useful for the average knifemaker IMHO. Although some disagree with me.
However if you do general smithing(non knife) also, the hammer quickly becomes much more important. That being said, unless you're an experienced fabricator of large machines, I wouldn't start with a hammer build, i'd buy a hammer instead. Many homebuilt hammers are good, but just as many aren't worth a shit.
Now you could ask; Forging Press or Power Hammer?
A press is much easier to construct than a well functioning hammer, and is more useful for the average knifemaker IMHO. Although some disagree with me.
However if you do general smithing(non knife) also, the hammer quickly becomes much more important. That being said, unless you're an experienced fabricator of large machines, I wouldn't start with a hammer build, i'd buy a hammer instead. Many homebuilt hammers are good, but just as many aren't worth a shit.
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I think a tire hammer would be a nice build.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/743961-Tire-Hammer-Plans-by-Clay-Spencer
but a rolling mill won't take much room, I wouldn't count it out later
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/743961-Tire-Hammer-Plans-by-Clay-Spencer
but a rolling mill won't take much room, I wouldn't count it out later
So, I'll echo many of the sentiments above, but with some further qualification. I'll start with my opinion, and then explain.
My opinion on power forging tool purchase order:
Here's why:
Power Hammer:
Most versatile of the three. You can work down Damascus billets, break down large stock into knife sized pieces, help make other forging tooling, general artist blacksmithing tasks, etc. A power hammer has the distinction of also being better at bringing stock to final thickness than a press is. This is due to the fact that the die to workpiece contact time is much less with a hammer than a press.
Hydraulic Press:
Easy to control, can be made relatively quiet, when built right can forge down big stock very efficiently. If planned and executed properly allows for lots of die choices to be made easily. Better for forging complex mosaic Damascus constructions if you build squaring dies. Allows for other complex Damascus work that would be tough with a hammer. Presses are bad at working stock less than 3/8" thick. The long die contact just sucks heat out of the work piece. When I'm forging down to 1/4" or 3/16", I spend about 70% of my forcing time in working the final sizing.
Rolling Mill:
Pretty specialized really. They are good at taking stock to final thickness very evenly, but generally not very good at drawing stock down much unless they are REALLY stoutly built. If you make a lot of Damascus barstock, you might need a rolling mill. If you don't it will be of limited use.
That's my $.02
-d
My opinion on power forging tool purchase order:
- Power Hammer
- Forging Press
- Rolling Mill
Here's why:
Power Hammer:
Most versatile of the three. You can work down Damascus billets, break down large stock into knife sized pieces, help make other forging tooling, general artist blacksmithing tasks, etc. A power hammer has the distinction of also being better at bringing stock to final thickness than a press is. This is due to the fact that the die to workpiece contact time is much less with a hammer than a press.
Hydraulic Press:
Easy to control, can be made relatively quiet, when built right can forge down big stock very efficiently. If planned and executed properly allows for lots of die choices to be made easily. Better for forging complex mosaic Damascus constructions if you build squaring dies. Allows for other complex Damascus work that would be tough with a hammer. Presses are bad at working stock less than 3/8" thick. The long die contact just sucks heat out of the work piece. When I'm forging down to 1/4" or 3/16", I spend about 70% of my forcing time in working the final sizing.
Rolling Mill:
Pretty specialized really. They are good at taking stock to final thickness very evenly, but generally not very good at drawing stock down much unless they are REALLY stoutly built. If you make a lot of Damascus barstock, you might need a rolling mill. If you don't it will be of limited use.
That's my $.02
-d
Thanks for the input guys. I think that I will do the tire hammer. of the various designs I've seen it looks like it might be the best choice for my limited space. the linkage for the ram is the most intemadating part. I have a chance to examine one next week and that should answer alot of questions. however I probably will ask questions of you all as the build proceeds.
thanks again
thanks again
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Down here in the South East, there've been a number of big tire hammer builds lately, where one or more smithing organizations gets together with a bunch of the members and experienced builders to put together a bunch of them at once.
Check with your local groups and see if there isn't a build slated, or maybe see about organizing one. Could save you a lot of headaches. Especially if you've never had or used a good hammer, it can be very difficult to know when things are working as well as they should.
Check with your local groups and see if there isn't a build slated, or maybe see about organizing one. Could save you a lot of headaches. Especially if you've never had or used a good hammer, it can be very difficult to know when things are working as well as they should.