Production M390 - Expectation vs Reality?

High end super steels should need less maintenance. A lot less. When it comes to this recent flood of m390, 20cv, 204p knives that hasn't been the case.

Have there started to be complaints from users about this? I'm on the forums sometimes and on youtube not at all, it's entirely possible I've just been missing them. Would be interested to read the threads/watch the videos.
 
Sharpened to about 15-16 degrees and holds a great, sharp edge. Been carrying and using this one for over a year now, from DLT's second run of this knife. In no way would I say this steel is soft. Takes a very nice polish too.
CK6iaxl.jpg

Sexy bitch of a blade Jonny!!
:thumbsup:
 
Have there started to be complaints from users about this? I'm on the forums sometimes and on youtube not at all, it's entirely possible I've just been missing them. Would be interested to read the threads/watch the videos.
Not sure. I've complained some about my Buck 20CV. I carried my Vantage for several weeks and it was quite noticeable. The first time it got dull I figured I didn't do a good job sharpening. The next time I was sure it was a good edge. The edge rolls with use I could possibly mitigate this with a shallower angle, but then I give up cutting performance.

To be clear, it holds an edge ok. Perhaps a little less well than my S30V Vantage. I have two issues with this: the first is that I expect better performance than S30V, not worse. The second is that an edge that rolls doesn't just cut less well. It stops cutting.
 
Not sure. I've complained some about my Buck 20CV. I carried my Vantage for several weeks and it was quite noticeable. The first time it got dull I figured I didn't do a good job sharpening. The next time I was sure it was a good edge. The edge rolls with use I could possibly mitigate this with a shallower angle, but then I give up cutting performance.

To be clear, it holds an edge ok. Perhaps a little less well than my S30V Vantage. I have two issues with this: the first is that I expect better performance than S30V, not worse. The second is that an edge that rolls doesn't just cut less well. It stops cutting.

Thanks - looking at the spreadsheet, 3 Buck hardness tested samples range from 57.7 - 58.3 for 20CV, so it sounds like they really are running it on the softer side.
 
Have there started to be complaints from users about this? I'm on the forums sometimes and on youtube not at all, it's entirely possible I've just been missing them. Would be interested to read the threads/watch the videos.

Check out luvthemknives on youtube. He's done a bunch of cut tests, though not the most scientific, as well has some professional hrc tests.

Spyderco seems to be in the clear, but he's put a lot of other manufacturers on blast for churning out subpar m390. Lionsteel had some knives test at 54hrc if I recall correctly.

TBH, even on the better heat treats, I was never all that impressed with m390. It didn't perform any better than s30v in my experience with just real world carry.

I've got a blade coming in m390 at 63hrc, so we'll see how that performs. Otherwise ZDP-189 and M4 will still be getting my super steel cash.
 
Thanks - looking at the spreadsheet, 3 Buck hardness tested samples range from 57.7 - 58.3 for 20CV, so it sounds like they really are running it on the softer side.
Yep. One of those is mine. :)

Check out luvthemknives on youtube. He's done a bunch of cut tests, though not the most scientific, as well has some professional hrc tests.

Spyderco seems to be in the clear, but he's put a lot of other manufacturers on blast for churning out subpar m390. Lionsteel had some knives test at 54hrc if I recall correctly.

TBH, even on the better heat treats, I was never all that impressed with m390. It didn't perform any better than s30v in my experience with just real world carry.

I've got a blade coming in m390 at 63hrc, so we'll see how that performs. Otherwise ZDP-189 and M4 will still be getting my super steel cash.
Have seen luvthemknives. Good stuff. I'm doing some cut tests as well and sending blades for HRC tests. Haven't published my cut tests yet. I've been trying to eliminate some of the variables, which are numerous. I had some rope consistency issues and was working on how to determine a consistent level of sharpeness before testing. I'm mostly sorted and ready to go. Basically copying the Cedric & Ada test method with some controls.

I have Spyderco 20CV and M390 ready to test with HRC testing already done. Will get to those in the next couple of weeks. Also have Buck Vantages with 6 different steels including my 20CV. I'm curious to see how the Bucks compare given the high expectations of Bos heat treat. There's also a 7th Vantage steel to test if I can find it.

I just tested a Spyderco 4V Mule which was excellent. Close to K390 for edge retention. If you can share where to get 63 HRC M390/20CV/204P I'm all ears.
 
Check out luvthemknives on youtube. He's done a bunch of cut tests, though not the most scientific, as well has some professional hrc tests.

Spyderco seems to be in the clear, but he's put a lot of other manufacturers on blast for churning out subpar m390. Lionsteel had some knives test at 54hrc if I recall correctly.

TBH, even on the better heat treats, I was never all that impressed with m390. It didn't perform any better than s30v in my experience with just real world carry.

I've got a blade coming in m390 at 63hrc, so we'll see how that performs. Otherwise ZDP-189 and M4 will still be getting my super steel cash.

With 20CV, 204P, and M390 combined, Spyderco has been 59-62 so far in what is still a limited sample size. Not too shabby, comparatively. They’ve had the highest hit on M390, to date.

They’re actually delivering a lot in pretty solid ranges.
 
I've skimmed the thread, but can't remember any mention of Hinderer and his 20CV/M390. Any testing done there?
 
I have glanced over them and while some of the numbers are just terrible one thing I want to comment on is that I disagree with 59 being too low for M390 I would say even 58 is acceptable not ideal but acceptable and that 59 is within a good range for it.
 
I have glanced over them and while some of the numbers are just terrible one thing I want to comment on is that I disagree with 59 being too low for M390 I would say even 58 is acceptable not ideal but acceptable and that 59 is within a good range for it.
Is there a chart that supports this?
Or just a personal opinion? Just curious, no offense intended.
60 and above you get much MUCH better edge holding. And it's not extremely brittle.

Also charts for steels are not based for knives. They are based on industial tooling. So they do not fully relate to how the knives will perform. More of an estimate.
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/edit#gid=0

As far as I know that's the best spreadsheet around

Seems to have multiple youtubers involved in it

Yep.

LTK is his own entity, though he talks to some of the others, and he has the biggest platform.

A bunch of us are smaller channels: Supersteel Steve, Outpost76, InthePocket, Alchemy1, myself, and Nero Knives has recently jumped in. We’re all in an ongoing chat with Kurt/jcoolg19, who does the hrc testing, and Bladebanter, who maintains the doc. It’s a busy space. K Knives Switzerland is in the chat and consults in a sense, and Big Brown Bear/triplebhandmade/Deadbox Hero has been a helpful resource.

Thanks a bunch. Seems no Hinderers have been tested yet.

4-5 of the guys have Hinderers, though I forget which steels. I think at least one of them has one in 20CV, and I know Steve’s is S35VN. We should have some tested soonish.
 
With 20CV, 204P, and M390 combined, Spyderco has been 59-62 so far in what is still a limited sample size. Not too shabby, comparatively. They’ve had the highest hit on M390, to date.

They’re actually delivering a lot in pretty solid ranges.
Agree. Spyderco generally does a great job. Some have expressed disappointment with the Hap40 HT. Hard to test since it's all clad with with stainless.

I have glanced over them and while some of the numbers are just terrible one thing I want to comment on is that I disagree with 59 being too low for M390 I would say even 58 is acceptable not ideal but acceptable and that 59 is within a good range for it.
It's a usable blade steel at 58 HRC. See my comments above about why I don't prefer it. Why am I getting M390/20CV if it performs no better than S30V and is perhaps worse? 'Cause it's trendy to have a blade that says "M390" on it? I can get other steels for the same or less money that perform better. (Better for me based on what I want out of a steel.)
 
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