Production M390 - Expectation vs Reality?

Mo2 said:
This is one of them where he accuses him of doing the test on the edge bevel. I couldn't find the other. Of course the comments all gone on the original deleted posts.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Byte1YPnvaN/?igshid=juv1qrqoiqv

And the two knives that did record low and performance cut testing was low... Are just two knives. Not the whole batch. And that's what the testers were trying to verify. Most likely Ltk kindof went off when he shouldn't have before they verified again, which they did and concluded what Banter said in an above post.
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Dude. Next time add a warning when you link to an account like that. I just lost faith in humanity all over.
 
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Insipid Moniker said:
When we have conflicting reports one of which is from a largely anonymous source trustworthiness would seem to matter, no?
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Yeah.
A) Some nameless guy who's got a badass tester machine at work that he can use over lunch till the boss got wind of it and told him to knock it off.

B) Supporting vendor who'd been here for 15 years and works in with person with the members and the knife makers to bring knives that people want to market.

Anyone who chooses A); please post pictures of both sides of your credit card here for "verification" purposes because that is just about how gullible/clueless you'd have to be.
 
Danke42 said:
Yeah.
A) Some nameless guy who's got a badass tester machine at work that he can use over lunch till the boss got wind of it and told him to knock it off.

B) Supporting vendor who'd been here for 15 years and works in with person with the members and the knife makers to bring knives that people want to market.

Anyone who chooses A); please post pictures of both sides of your credit card here for "verification" purposes because that is just about how gullible/clueless you'd have to be.
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On the subject of A vs B, what’s your current understanding of what is being disagreed upon?
 
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91bravo said:
What about steel A, or B, or C? And so on.... Expectation vs reality. Why is only M390 being picked on and sifted through with an ultra fine sieve?
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Because M390 is the “best”. Why would you bother with anything else? :rolleyes:
 
91bravo said:
What about steel A, or B, or C? And so on.... Expectation vs reality. Why is only M390 being picked on and sifted through with an ultra fine sieve?
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Fair question.

In testing, a lot of companies are coming in a strong ranges for ... most everything. S30V, S35VN, M4, K390, Maxamet, S90V, VG-10, 154CM, XHP, etc have been pretty consistently well delivered.

The M390/20CV/204P family is the most commonly used set of steels delivered at a debatable range. Most have hit 57-59, which some companies use as a target range.

I think the most relevant debate is around whether or not 57-59 is desirable, given relative performance there as opposed to 60-62, assuming a good process to arrive at those ranges. Some are content with 57-59, others are not.
 
Banter 247 said:
Fair question.

In testing, a lot of companies are coming in a strong ranges for ... most everything. S30V, S35VN, M4, K390, Maxamet, S90V, VG-10, 154CM, XHP, etc have been pretty consistently well delivered.

The M390/20CV/204P family is the most commonly used set of steels delivered at a debatable range. Most have hit 57-59, which some companies use as a target range.

I think the most relevant debate is around whether or not 57-59 is desirable, given relative performance there as opposed to 60-62, assuming a good process to arrive at those ranges. Some are content with 57-59, others are not.
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Honestly, I think this is an excellent conversation to have, particularly for those who are interested in such things.

What I do not find acceptable are the aspersions being cast on reputable dealers, their collaborations, and the manufacturers they work with. And then getting indignant that a dealer should dare question their findings... Social media is comprised of the torches and pitchforks of the modern age. Quick to cast judgement and slow to rectify or even acknowledge when mistakes are made.
 
Pàdruig said:
Honestly, I think this is an excellent conversation to have, particularly for those who are interested in such things.

What I do not find acceptable are the aspersions being cast on reputable dealers, their collaborations, and the manufacturers they work with. And then getting indignant that a dealer should dare question their findings... Social media is comprised of the torches and pitchforks of the modern age. Quick to cast judgement and slow to rectify or even acknowledge when mistakes are made.
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Amen!
 
Pàdruig said:
Honestly, I think this is an excellent conversation to have, particularly for those who are interested in such things.

What I do not find acceptable are the aspersions being cast on reputable dealers, their collaborations, and the manufacturers they work with. And then getting indignant that a dealer should dare question their findings... Social media is comprised of the torches and pitchforks of the modern age. Quick to cast judgement and slow to rectify or even acknowledge when mistakes are made.
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This is why I haven’t been involved in going at manufacturers or dealers, and have suggested third party verification and private reporting of outliers.

I get tagged in a lot of things, but my own involvement with all of this has been focused on data, rather than battles. I enjoy learning. I don’t have interest in social media warfare.
 
Banter 247 said:
This is why I haven’t been involved in going at manufacturers or dealers, and have suggested third party verification and private reporting of outliers.

I get tagged in a lot of things, but my own involvement with all of this has been focused on data, rather than battles. I enjoy learning. I don’t have interest in social media warfare.
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I think LTK jumped the gun with the reaction he had. He should have waited for more testing and allowed the company to resolve the problem. But yea.

I don't think anyone here ran with the idea that 50-56hrc was something that is common in there lineup. The original video was that it was common to see 58hrc give or take in the current list of data. And the cut tests were showing those with 60-62 were out performing the rest.

It was when two slip joints were tested at a lower hrc for whatever reason, then people started to go nuts. Like who does that? Iirc one of them did very low in a cut test (unsure how many times they did a cut test on it). I look at the performance, not the hrc. Though I would like them to bump the hrc up to show a more optimistic performance in cardboard cut tests. Hence why I won't buy anymore from a majority of brands.

Alot of people don't know what's going on and just believe the memes or just assume something cause they don't know any better. That's no ones fault. I think the problem now is alot of the community is not very knowledgeable about the subject they collect and haven't bothered to learn/understand much about it. People just see price and materials overall.
 
You know what I really want, is one of those XRF mass spectrometers, so I can just zap a sample or knife blade and see the element percentages within an alloy. Let's see what steel those knives REALLY are! Imagine the shitstorm that could be conjured!
 
Mecha said:
You know what I really want, is one of those XRF mass spectrometers, so I can just zap a sample or knife blade and see the element percentages within an alloy. Let's see what steel those knives REALLY are! Imagine the shitstorm that could be conjured!
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Then we have this situation...

Where have you been? That's already been included in the spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/htmlview

Referr to rows A, H and i
 
Mecha said:
Well, shit in a bag and punch it. Looks like there were some fakers in there. Lol at the ti grade "unknown." :D
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Iirc "Unknowns" could be due to a coating over the ti, or maybe it's not in the XRF gun database or maybe the media used to blast the scales may be throwing it off. I don't remember what the deal was. I do believe it was described in the video for that specific knife.
 
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