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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
professional kitchen cutlerly best one?
- Thread starter calan
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2003
- Messages
- 284
Henkels is good, Cutco is pretty decent...Kyocera is good as well, although those knives are a bit fragile, but last forever.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2001
- Messages
- 3,415
I use henckels myself.
I have:
5.5" chef's from the cologne series
6.5" chinese cleaver
3.5" utility(from the 2 man line)
2.something" bird beak paring
just try and find something I can't do in the kitchen... bread is already long since covered by the left pocket carry of a 4" serrated.
all together ran me around $100cdn.
I have:
5.5" chef's from the cologne series
6.5" chinese cleaver
3.5" utility(from the 2 man line)
2.something" bird beak paring
just try and find something I can't do in the kitchen... bread is already long since covered by the left pocket carry of a 4" serrated.
all together ran me around $100cdn.
To a large extent kitchen knives are priced out of all proportion to quality or performance. In many cases the customer is buying either a brand name or the perception of quality instead of a truly superior knife.
I've never been particularly impressed by Henckles, or any of the big-name forged German brands. They look nice sitting in a knife block and cost quite a bit but the actual performance is nothing special.
Most kitchen knives (even expensive ones) are made out of 420HC, a very stainless steel that is not real good at keeping an edge.
Sabatier has a line of knives made from non-stainless carbon steel, which holds an edge better but comes with its own set of problems. If you are willing to keep your knives dry and clean all the time this is probably your best choice.
In my experience the best deal (by far) in kitchen cutlery is the Victorinox line with the fibrox handles. These are inexpensive, light and easy to use, and function very well. Personally I prefer them to other brands which cost much more.
I've never used them, but MAC and Global kitchen knives also seem to be highly regarded around here.
I've never been particularly impressed by Henckles, or any of the big-name forged German brands. They look nice sitting in a knife block and cost quite a bit but the actual performance is nothing special.
Most kitchen knives (even expensive ones) are made out of 420HC, a very stainless steel that is not real good at keeping an edge.
Sabatier has a line of knives made from non-stainless carbon steel, which holds an edge better but comes with its own set of problems. If you are willing to keep your knives dry and clean all the time this is probably your best choice.
In my experience the best deal (by far) in kitchen cutlery is the Victorinox line with the fibrox handles. These are inexpensive, light and easy to use, and function very well. Personally I prefer them to other brands which cost much more.
I've never used them, but MAC and Global kitchen knives also seem to be highly regarded around here.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2003
- Messages
- 484
calan,
My inlaws have a set of Henckels kitchen knives that was bought 10 or 12 years ago. They are the ones without bolsters, and have black plastic handles held on by stainless rivets or pins. Every knife in the set has at least one crack in the handle slabs, next to a rivet. They were flat ground very thin at the time of purchase, but the steel is quite soft, and every knife in the set has lost a good bit of steel at the edge from sharpening. I don't know of the knives ever being sharpened on anything but a steel. They are very stain resistant.
The only other set of kitchen knives that I've had long term experience with is my Mom's set of Old Hickory kneves that were bought earlier than I can remaber. All are flat ground from carbon steel and hold an edge pretty well. The set is at least twice as old as my inlaw's set of Henckles and has lost much less material along the edge, and my Dad sharpens them on a stone. They have developed a really dark patina, and don't rust if dried after washing. The handles are a simple rectangular block of hardwood and are held on by two brass rivets. They are excellent workers, but not much to look at.
I'm sure there are brands that offer premium steels and good fit and finish out there, and you can probably find them on the web.
Todd
My inlaws have a set of Henckels kitchen knives that was bought 10 or 12 years ago. They are the ones without bolsters, and have black plastic handles held on by stainless rivets or pins. Every knife in the set has at least one crack in the handle slabs, next to a rivet. They were flat ground very thin at the time of purchase, but the steel is quite soft, and every knife in the set has lost a good bit of steel at the edge from sharpening. I don't know of the knives ever being sharpened on anything but a steel. They are very stain resistant.
The only other set of kitchen knives that I've had long term experience with is my Mom's set of Old Hickory kneves that were bought earlier than I can remaber. All are flat ground from carbon steel and hold an edge pretty well. The set is at least twice as old as my inlaw's set of Henckles and has lost much less material along the edge, and my Dad sharpens them on a stone. They have developed a really dark patina, and don't rust if dried after washing. The handles are a simple rectangular block of hardwood and are held on by two brass rivets. They are excellent workers, but not much to look at.
I'm sure there are brands that offer premium steels and good fit and finish out there, and you can probably find them on the web.
Todd
- Joined
- Dec 25, 1998
- Messages
- 7,394
I've been really happy with my Spyderco set.
If I were going to buy a professional set, I would probably get a few customs made.
If I were going to buy a professional set, I would probably get a few customs made.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2003
- Messages
- 1,362
I have a large assortment of kitchen knives, most of them from antique stores and eBay. You can sometimes find really good deals on old Sabatier on eBay, but my recommendation is to check your local restaurant supply for Russell Harrington knives. I used to use them almost exclusively when I was cooking in a restaurant, and they're pretty decent knives. They don't have the weight of a good forged knife, but you can get them nice and sharp, and the handles are incredibly comfortable.
Here's one, so you can get an idea of what they're like.
http://www.bigtray.com/productdetails.asp?catid=16930&sku=RUSS14510CP&s=Russell+Harrington&rn=46
Good luck.
James
Here's one, so you can get an idea of what they're like.
http://www.bigtray.com/productdetails.asp?catid=16930&sku=RUSS14510CP&s=Russell+Harrington&rn=46
Good luck.
James
The cutlery store near me serves the resturaunt crowd almost more than they serve the household customer. They have all the expensive german brands up front easy to see, which they recommend to the household customer. A little off to the side in the case are the Forschner brand, which is what they sell to proffessional. On two occasions, new chefs with new jobs came in and were told by their new employers to come to this shop and buy Forschner.
I buy Forschner and it's a good product. The store personnel indicated that Forshner was about as good as it gets, but lines like Henckels are heavier, and some like the weightier blades. I also believe that for the retailer, there is a lot more markup and profit in the Henkles line than Forshner.
I buy Forschner and it's a good product. The store personnel indicated that Forshner was about as good as it gets, but lines like Henckels are heavier, and some like the weightier blades. I also believe that for the retailer, there is a lot more markup and profit in the Henkles line than Forshner.
My wife has been a chef for over 20 years and she likes Wusthoff, and says that Forschner is popular among the other chefs she works with. She also has several older Chicago brand kitchen knives she likes.
I just asked her if she had to buy new knives, what would she get right now. She said she would get Forschner or Wusthoff.
Mike
I just asked her if she had to buy new knives, what would she get right now. She said she would get Forschner or Wusthoff.
Mike
I've been studying up on kitchen knives lately and I wonder what are these famous Brands (Forschner, Wustoff, Messermiester, etc.) made from? There's no indication that I can find. That's why I've purchased one MAC knife because the carbon content (0.75 IIRC) and Rc hardness (57-59) is right on the box, and the price is good too. http://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=10 and http://www.macknife.com/ I also got a couple of Messermiester Asian Precision Series knives (made in Japan of AUS-8), again because I now know the carbon content and the hardness...OK plus the price was irresisible. I also got a hand-forged Santoku from Shinichi Watanabe which has a center laminate of over 60 Rc. I'm now looking at more MAC knives (because the one I have is proving to be the best of my collection due to the steel and the design. It just works well. Again, it bothers me that I don't know what steel Forschner, Wustoff, Messermiester, etc. uses (is it 420HC? or 440A?), so for now I like MAC knives (good steel, good knife, good price). Credit goes to Jeff Clark for giving me the idea to look at MAC knives.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2002
- Messages
- 4,131
Messermeister is made from "high carbon no-stain molybdenum vanadium tool steel" according to their website. I work at R&J Cutlery, and the Messermeister is the best stuff we carry.
Personally, I'm planning on making my own set.
Personally, I'm planning on making my own set.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2001
- Messages
- 2,726
Most of the Spyderco kitchen knives have been discontinued 
but they are easily the best that I've used. They used some pretty good steels and had them made thin and hard. Most kitchen knives are made softer so they will resharpen more easily. The softness means they also have to be thicker.
Forschner would be my second choice.
--Bob Q
but they are easily the best that I've used. They used some pretty good steels and had them made thin and hard. Most kitchen knives are made softer so they will resharpen more easily. The softness means they also have to be thicker.Forschner would be my second choice.
--Bob Q
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,842
IMO, the first, and biggest, decision point is the knife style you go with. Do you want to go with what I think of as the western-style kitchen knives (exemplified by high-end Henckel's and W-T, heavy construction with an integral bolster) or what I think of as eastern-style (thinner construction, no bolster).
Here's a western-style knife:
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?WU458716
And here's an eastern-style:
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?KSDM0702
Generalizing again, here's the general tradeoff as I see it. The western style knives tend to be more comfortable for whatever finger is up against the bolster. And they're heavy enough that the knife itself can do some of the cutting for you. The eastern-style knives tend to be thinner all the way down to the edge, for higher cutting performance. The western-style seem to have their thickest edges nearest the bolster, right where I often want the best performance.
I favor the eastern-style, thin blades and thin edges, as for me more controllable and easier to cut with. Maybe if I had to stand in the kitchen for hours, I'd appreciate a heavier style knife that cuts through food just with its own weight, but as it is I'll reach for my Japanese kitchen cutlery way before my Henckels. I understand most chefs in this country favor the heavier western-style blades -- again, perhaps because they have to cut so much, I dunno.
Joe
Here's a western-style knife:
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?WU458716
And here's an eastern-style:
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?KSDM0702
Generalizing again, here's the general tradeoff as I see it. The western style knives tend to be more comfortable for whatever finger is up against the bolster. And they're heavy enough that the knife itself can do some of the cutting for you. The eastern-style knives tend to be thinner all the way down to the edge, for higher cutting performance. The western-style seem to have their thickest edges nearest the bolster, right where I often want the best performance.
I favor the eastern-style, thin blades and thin edges, as for me more controllable and easier to cut with. Maybe if I had to stand in the kitchen for hours, I'd appreciate a heavier style knife that cuts through food just with its own weight, but as it is I'll reach for my Japanese kitchen cutlery way before my Henckels. I understand most chefs in this country favor the heavier western-style blades -- again, perhaps because they have to cut so much, I dunno.
Joe
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,577
I would just add to what Joe said and say also that once you decide what style of knife you prefer, you might want to consider buying knives individually rather than as a set. Tailor your knives to your needs. Just like your other knives, you might find that you want different types or even styles of blades for different applications.
As for steel composition, F.Dick, www.dick.de a favorite German maker of mine claims to use stainless with vanadium and molybdenum. They don't give the type or breakdown but its probably similar to Messermeister. The switch to better quality steels may be a somewhat recent development.
Edited to add:
BTW The "Talmadge" Tactical Kitchen Knife by Trace Rinaldi is my favorite design. But you'll have to get in line after me.
As for steel composition, F.Dick, www.dick.de a favorite German maker of mine claims to use stainless with vanadium and molybdenum. They don't give the type or breakdown but its probably similar to Messermeister. The switch to better quality steels may be a somewhat recent development.
Edited to add:
BTW The "Talmadge" Tactical Kitchen Knife by Trace Rinaldi is my favorite design. But you'll have to get in line after me.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2001
- Messages
- 3,415
I did most of my cooking with a 7" straight cleaver and a 10" butcher's, until I started working in a greek resteraunt. 4 months of work changed my views.
the only thing I didn't do in the kitchen was hot plates for customers(made my own and many for staff).
started using my 5.5" chef's more, and the kithen knives evolved into what I have now. The chinese cleaver has a slight rocker edge on it, which I used the same type a LOT with the greeks. Even against a cook with 5yrs down, and giving him his choice, I was faster at chopping veggies.
the only thing I didn't do in the kitchen was hot plates for customers(made my own and many for staff).
started using my 5.5" chef's more, and the kithen knives evolved into what I have now. The chinese cleaver has a slight rocker edge on it, which I used the same type a LOT with the greeks. Even against a cook with 5yrs down, and giving him his choice, I was faster at chopping veggies.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,200
Bquinlan, there seem to be several vendors selling Spyderco kitchen knives on the Internet, and none are on sale, clearance, or labeled "discontinued." Check out the "Santoku" model at $26-36 ($26 at w.bladex.com).
And isn't Forschner a division of Victorinox?
And isn't Forschner a division of Victorinox?
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2001
- Messages
- 1,190
Great Cutlery: Forschner! Super quality with awesome pricing
Good cutlery that my wife likes: The New Calphalon Contemporary Integral set
Really awesome cutlery with a matching price tag: Kershaw Kai Shun
YMMV!
Good cutlery that my wife likes: The New Calphalon Contemporary Integral set
Really awesome cutlery with a matching price tag: Kershaw Kai Shun
YMMV!