Propane tank (forge) in unheated garage/winter scenario, any concerns?

M

mgysgthath

Joined
Dec 15, 2009
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Hi,
Firstly thanks to everyone for all the advice over the last few weeks, it's been a privilege.

So my forge is set to arrive in the next few days.. and I will have to wait a bit longer for a propane tank but I think I can use my 20# bbq tank in the mean time, to begin with. I'm wondering how the propane is going to react to cold Ontario winter temperatures. Am I going to have to wrap the tank in a heating pad, keep it the house and run a long hose outside to the shop? Or will it be fine with the unheated garage?
 
I've not had too much trouble running a venturi forge in cold weather. One problem I had was doing this with a small shop, needing to keep a door and window partway open to vent propane exhaust if running for a long time- it sucks having a big draft through the shop in the winter.

Your anvil will suck the heat right out of your steel, though. Might be a good time to practice the Japanese method of bouncing the workpiece off the anvil when it's not being struck.
 
Lots of homes use propane to cook and heat with. They don't wrap the tanks to protect them in the winter. Frank
 
That's good to know guys, and a very good tip with the anvil Salem, thank you. Ya it sucks a bit having minus 30 or 40 plus wind blowing in your shop with the door open.. but id rather that than suffocating I suppose :P
 
Actually, now that I recall it-

I was building a log cabin with my dad during the early winter of '06 up in the hills. It had already snowed a foot onto our log decks, and we were having to hack and pry logs out of the ice to dog them onto the second story walls to scribe them to fit. There isn't a thing in the world that you can mark a frozen or even really wet log with that has a fine enough line for scribing, and will fit into the pencil holder on your scribes.

What we needed was a propane weed burner to thaw the logs with. But we didn't have one, and living 40 miles of bad road from town, we had to make do. I'd recently built a 1" propane jet ejector burner for a forge, so I pulled it out and got to thawing logs with it. I ran that thing for days in that cabin shell at like 10-20 deg., it worked well and we actually got the roof on later that month.

If your burner is a venturi type, a choke plate can help it in cold weather.
 
If you were to get a cylinder filled in the cold winter outdoor weather, then brought that cylinder inside a heated home,

it has the potential to vent off overpressure created by the temperature change.

that vented gas is dangerous to have inside the house.




IFI had a discussion on heating propane tanks.
Some were concerned for safety.
Some suggested a larger tank.
some suggested using a manifold to attach 2 tanks together.
Some suggested the heating pad.
Some suggested soaking the tanks in water.
some used a small electric hot air heater to warm the tanks and shop air


give it a go first and see if it is even a problem for you..
 
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20 pound tanks will freeze up in an hour or three, do not store them in your house for the reasons suggested by the count. Do not operate a forge inside without at least a garage door open for ventilation! Seriously. When the lights turn yellow you are already seriously carbon monoxide poisoned. Don't go there, I am lucky I realized what was happening and got the hell out to fresh air.

-Page
 
I have been forging in Ontario for 4yrs now. Double manifold tanks are great... it made a huge difference. Keeping your tanks in the house until use will only give you another 10mins of run time and is stoopyd for obvious safety concerns. I did have issues last year, when it dropped below -20. I bought a small heating pad, slipped it between the tanks and wrapped them in an old wool blanket.... worked like a charm. One suggestion is to place a plastic barrier between the blanket and the tank. If any ice forms it will freeze the blanket to the tank which is a pain to get off and reduces the insulative effect. Here is the pad I bought.

ALWAYS VENT WHILE YOU FORGE

I was under the assumption that CO was heavier than air and filled a room from the floor up. So I would just raise the garage door a few inches to vent. But it is so close to the density of air that it's pretty much everywhere with temperature variance and air flow. I got headaches and felt sick on a regular basis..... I was lucky to have lived through it!

Rick
 
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I live in Maine and forge in the winter. That being said, I have my forges on a wheeled cart and push the forge outside the garage to use every time. i also do not store the bottles in the garage, but in the shed. There is just too much to go wrong with a forge and a bottle of propane inside the garage, which is attached to my house. It is not ideal but I feel that it is better safe than sorry. Others will have different opinionsm, but this is just what works for me in my situation.
 
Thanks guys, what would you recommend for a garage with an open door for venting? Or is it even necessary with an open door? At the rear of the garage near the top is an exhaust fan.. not sure the cfm etc but it moves a semi decent amount of air out the hole in the top of the wall where it's mounted. It's about 8" across (going by memory).
 
Exhaust fans are good but what really makes a difference is having a fresh air intake. This may be an odd way of doing it but I tested the air circulation in my shop by pumping out a lot of smoke and watching the air currents do their thing. I found the best configuration for me was to raise my garage door 6" and lay a 2x6 under it to fill the gap. This allows the top portion to remain open, without getting a draft across the floor. Next I installed a dual, 8", reversable window mounted fan. When I forge it is set on intake and when I grind it's set to exhaust. Creating smoke was as easy as dipping a hot iron into some canola and letting it burn off. The smoke does one giant swirl then gets sucked out the top pf the garage door really efficiently. Once in a while, I get a chirp from the CO detector but it is easily manageable.

Rick
 

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Do you mean you create a 6" gap and put the 2x6" on it's side leaving a 4" gap 2 inches off the floor? I'm not sure if I can raise my door, with the way it's mounted, but that's an interesting idea I never would have thought of. I'll definitely give it a shot.. and I indeed plan to get a CO2 detector, for the price I'm not going to play with my health.
 
Check out the wicked awesome MS Paint drawing I did for ya! Where are you in Ontario again?
 
Doh I totally missed the image before. Ah I see, your door is the kind that rolls up into the ceiling? Mine slides to the side. I'm near Kingston, so it's quite a distance. I was checking out you and Wally hoping you were closer :P And that IS a pretty darn good drawing for ms paint! Thank you :P
 
Old thread but worth raising from the dead.
Just worked outside today and my little 20 pound tank was worthless. 18 degrees F and I think the gauge off the tank froze. Read zero but when i jiggled the tank more gas would come out for two to three minutes. Forging was ...kick tank, watch...kick tank...take out and hammer for a 30 secs or so since the anvil was so cold...repeat. I think I will try bypassing the gauge. I kinda know the sound of the proper flow of gas and air.

Glad you all brought up the CO issue and excellent schematics and opinions by Rick (as usual). The one thing to also know about CO exposure is that it has been documented to alter a person's personality with high levels or repeated low levels. Perhaps this would be a good thing for some of the more verbally aggressive on this forum :)
 
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I don't operate a forge in my shop. I'm a stock removal maker. but after this conversation I will get one. My shop does have a limited air supply system and a warning that I don't have it in use is a great idea. Frank
 
These are the days that I wish I had one of those gorgeous set ups with an indoor large vented "coal" heat source.
 
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