Propane usage? What size tank/s do you use? Fuel level meters?

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Feb 25, 2011
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For those of you who forge your blades using propane, how much propane do you use for x # of knives. I don't need exact figures just ballparks of how much propane you use on average to forge any number of medium size (6-12" OAL) blades. What size tanks do most of you use, can you recommend a tank meter that displays an accurate fuel level.


I have been a stock removal maker for 10 years, and have only dabbled in forged blades. I am making the move to forging my knives exclusively, and just want some idea of the amount of fuel I will use. I currently have only 2 x 5gal tanks, and I know that will not be enough. I plan on forging 5-8 full-tang medium sized fixed blades per week.

Lowes sells a 100lb (no gallon listening, my guess is 10-15 gal, since 5gal, weighs 40lbs).
 
The 100lb tank holds 20 gal.If you are gonna forge everyday,get a 250 gal. tank set up out back.It's a good bit cheaper for a commercial account.They have a gauge on top.For the 100lb and under just watch the frost line.
 
I have 3 -100lbrs. Each one lasts me about 3 days forge welding. Here it is much cheaper to take the 100s down to the propane distributor than have them come out. Even dropping 200 gallons at a time they charge $1 more per gallon for delivery. For levels I do the rock check. See how much movement I get when I rock the tank. Can tell if I have enough for the day or if I need to switch out tanks. When last tank is about 1/2 full I go fill other 2.
 
I can't help with the forging part of your question, but I can help with the questions regarding propane.

Propane is generally considered to weigh 4.11 lbs per liquid gallon. That weight has some fluctuation though – as temperature and humidity both effect the density of propane. Most refineries list the weight (of propane) at 4.11 lbs per gallon. A few refineries (or storage locations) list different weights (between 4.11 lbs per gallon and 4.2 lbs per gallon).

The only accurate means of measuring propane is weight. I know of no gauges that can provide anything other than a rough estimate of the amount of propane left in a tank.

Containers that are designed to be moved are called cylinders. Generally speaking, any propane container less than 420 lbs (capacity) are going to be cylinders. Containers designed for permanent placement are called tanks. Generally speaking, tanks will have a capacity that is larger than 420 lbs.


With rare exception, cylinders do not list a water capacity on the tank; they will list a lb capacity. Tanks will list the water capacity.

Neither tanks or cylinders should be filled beyond 80% of their capacity. This is for safety precautions, as the remaining 20% allows for expansion (of the propane) as the temperature increases.

Both tanks and cylinders will have a “bleeder valve” near the fill valve. This bleeder valve is often used as a means of insuring the cylinder/tank is not over-filled (when propane starts to spit out of the bleeder valve, the tank/cylinder is 80% full). Be aware of the fact that bleeder valves occasionally stick (it is rare, but it does happen). Any tank/cylinder that is over-filled must be drained down to the safe level. This is especially important when the temperatures fluctuate from cold to warm.

A 100 lb cylinder can hold approximately 24.33 gallons of propane (that would fill it completely – which would be over-filled). An 80% fill would be approximately 20 gallons (slightly less, actually).

All cylinders must have a tare weight stamped into the cylinder. That is the weight of the cylinder itself.

Suppose the tare weight of the 100 lb cylinder is 42.7 lbs. To fill that cylinder (safely) you would set the scale to a weight of 122.7 lbs (tare + 80% of 100 lbs) and fill the tank to the point that the scale just balances at 122.7 lbs. I would also recommend that the bleeder valve is opened slightly at this time – when it starts spitting the cylinder is filled to 80% of capacity.

In those cases when a tank (not completely empty) is to be refilled, weigh the cylinder (with some propane still in it) and then subtract that weight from the safely filled weight (tare weight + 80% of the capacity in lbs). Otherwise you would be paying for the propane still in the tank prior to filling.

Just to be clear on that last part: suppose your tare weight is 42.7 lbs, but the cylinder weighs 52 lbs. You have 7.3lbs of propane still in the cylinder.

Most places will not let the owner (of the cylinder) fill their own cylinder. Be aware of the fact that some places will try to cheat people out of the propane that was in the cylinder. They do that by subtracting only the tare weight from the total weight of a safely filled cylinder (omitting the extra weight of the propane left in the cylinder before filling).

There are charts available that can give you a general idea of how much propane it will take to do the task at hand. Normally, those specifics would be found via the manufacturer of the item that is burning the propane.

It's probably easier to weigh the cylinders before and after forging your items. The difference – in lbs – can then be used to determine how many gallons of propane you have used.

Check with your local propane companies; it might be cheaper for you to buy the propane through them (other than buying your own cylinder).

While propane is fairly safe, there are dangers involved and some points that should be remembered.

Propane is lighter than water, but heavier than air. It will always seek out the lowest spot in calm conditions.

Keep the cylinders/tanks outside – helping to prevent the accumulation of propane vapors in the event of a leak.

In the event of a leak, make sure there is plenty of ventilation and stay upwind (and on higher ground) until the propane is completely dispersed. With air movement, propane disperses quite rapidly: there is no harm to the environment

Propane itself is odorless, but mercaptan is added as a safety caution (it smells bad, so leaks can be easily detected).

Propane is pressurized. It is possible – since the liquid form of propane is much colder than the outside air – to “burn” your skin with the liquid form.

Use a brass wrench – or some other non-sparking material – to attach/detach lines to/from propane containers.

Check for leaks – using a soapy water concoction (you can buy it, or make it) every time you change cylinders. There can be leaks that aren't heard or smelled, so be sure to check for them.
 
Attaching a thermo-chromic strip near the bottom of the tank will tell you when the tank is getting low. Frankly, I don't know if the strips are still there, since I just run the tank till it is empty.

I had two 100 # tanks, and about six 20#ers. I got rid of one of the 100# tanks and just change to a 20# tank when needed. I set the big tank to the side to take it down to the propane filler next trip that way.

You need a 100# tank to do any long duration running of the forge , as a 20# tank will freeze up if run longer than 30-40 minutes at any higher rate of flow. Damascus welding with the burner running wide open will freeze up a small tank in 15 minutes.
 
I used to freeze up my 100 pounders with regularity when forging damascus and just got tired of it. About 5 years ago I switched to an outside tank.
Forget the price. We need propane to do what we do. And we make money when we're in the shop working - not running here and there getting tanks filled.
Set an outside tank and keep one in the shop as back up.

This was what I had in Illinois:



Now this is what I have in Minnesota:

 
The big caveat to answering your question correctly, is "what kind of forge?"


I can blow thru a 100lber in a day forging damascus in a full day, but a 2 brick forge might last a month or more depending on how many hours you use it.


For just forging blades, I think you'll be fine with 1 or 2 100lb tanks.


It all depends on your speed, how much you walk away from the forge with it running, how long the forging sessions are, etc. This is all assuming, you've got a relatively efficient small forge. If you've got a 3 burner NC Tool forge, as a random commercial example, expect to use a ton more fuel.


I use 100lb tanks, because it's a PITA to get them to drop a large tank for my uses in my area. Have to have a safety switch on the forge, etc, and I rent my house. Where I'm moving, I'll be getting the largest tank possible. However, I make damascus primarily, at a ratio of about 20 to 1 billets to knives.
 
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Thanks guys lots of helpful advice. I will not be forging Damascus or San Mai anytime soon, just plain old carbon steel blades. My current forge is just a smaller two burner. I am just going to get one or 2 100# ers for now and will look into getting a separate outdoor tank installed. Thanks again guys.
 
I do a fair amount of forging, but I just use the small bbq sized tanks, they say 15 lbs on the side. I have 5-6 of them that I use most of the time. I like them because they are easily handled, and they sell them everywhere. when one is out of date, or a valve has a problem, you can just swap them out at the blue rhino places.

I don't do Damascus or san mai, just normal forging. I also built a powerhammer, and it really saves a lot of time that the forge is running.

and I built 3 forges: small, medium, and sword lenth, so I can match up the forge to what I am working on that day. the small one will run 20 plus hours on one bbq tank, the medium will go 12 hours plus, and I haven't needed the sword forge for enough projects that I know how long it will run yet. they all have forced air burners.
 
Dang I knew propane would burn fast but I didn't know you could burn through so much in a day. Seem very expensive. I think I will stick to my coal forge for now.
 
Yes, you can freeze up a 100 lbs cylinder but you WILL freeze up a 20 pounder!!!!! I don't have a truck, but my gas supplier is 2 blocks away and picks my 100 pounder up with the forklift and brings it back. A 40 pounder will work better than a 20. With that said, I keep a Blue Rhino 20 around for when I run out at an inopportune time, which I always do.;)
 
Not much to add, except on efficiency. Since building my vertical forge, and the lining in both my forges stays in good shape now, I've been using WAY less propane. Seems when I used to make damascus in the horizontal forge, the damage to the lining, even seemingly insignificant damage, made me use a lot more propane for the same heats. Used to 1 to 2 days of heavy forging and my 100lb tank was empty. Since building the vertical and relining my horizontal and using satinite, bubble alumina, and ITC 100, I'm working on day 5, but tanks just about empty.

If you use it much, get a bigger tank. They will come out and deliver the propane, and around here it's about a dollar cheaper a gallon to fill a large tank as well.
 
My vertical will go through a 100 lb. tank in a day and a half, welding. My little horizontal will go through a 20 lb. tank in 5 days, just forging blades. Propane is really not that big a cost unless you do a lot of welding.

I worked at an artist blacksmith shop most of the winter- the blown forge ran all day and the gas truck had to come once every couple weeks to fill the big tank outside. Big propane bill! 6-800 a week sometimes. It was so cold outside (-20 some mornings) that we had to light the forge 2 hours early just to be able to work in there! Drafty and no heat otherwise. The hammers would run super sluggish until lunchtime or so.
 
My vertical will go through a 100 lb. tank in a day and a half, welding. My little horizontal will go through a 20 lb. tank in 5 days, just forging blades. Propane is really not that big a cost unless you do a lot of welding.

I worked at an artist blacksmith shop most of the winter- the blown forge ran all day and the gas truck had to come once every couple weeks to fill the big tank outside. Big propane bill! 6-800 a week sometimes. It was so cold outside (-20 some mornings) that we had to light the forge 2 hours early just to be able to work in there! Drafty and no heat otherwise. The hammers would run super sluggish until lunchtime or so.

Something is wrong with your vertical, mine is big (18"dia.) and uses little gas. 100-150 gallons a year, with a Lot of forging... At the blacksmith shop it would likely be cheaper and more productive to just heat the shop... :cool:
 
Hey, I'm not the boss there... I sure don't run my forge all day just for shop heat!
I weld pretty hot, and run a reducing atmosphere. So maybe a bit of excess fuel consumption. I'm building a vertical with a larger chamber soon, when I do that I'll adjust my burner again and hopefully get performance more in line with your forge, Don...
 
Salem, you should get better efficiency with a larger vertical, with the right construction and right size burner. It's been years since I used 100 gal tanks, but if I remember right, I'd get at least 2 weeks forge welding every day with one tank.
 
I just got a second 100lb tank given to me, and I'm thinking about kaboshing both of them to go back to the 20lb barbeque style. Simply put, they are a bear to move around even when they're empty. I just filled one tank and it weighed 194 pounds when done. Getting that into and out of the back of my truck is less-than-pleasing on the back!

Yea, they last longer than a 20lb tank. But I can have three or four smaller tanks ready to plug in at any time. I can throw a small tank into the car and get it swapped out when I fill up the car's tank, or when I'm getting groceries.....

Best solution - get a huge yard tank and have a company come out and refill it once a year!
 
I am in Maine and forge Damascus and blades during the winter, outside. A 20lb tank will freeze very very quickly with any forge welding. I only use 20 and 40lb tanks due to the hassle of moving bigger ones alone to get filled. I just set them in a large metal bucket of hot water while forging. It cools fast but I can get what needs to be done without issue and maybe a refill of hot water. A few weeks ago I forgot a tank in the water and it froze solid overnight. I would like to get a really big stationary tank at some point but until then, 100lb, 40lb and 20lb are all a hassle in one way or another.


I just got a second 100lb tank given to me, and I'm thinking about kaboshing both of them to go back to the 20lb barbeque style. Simply put, they are a bear to move around even when they're empty. I just filled one tank and it weighed 194 pounds when done. Getting that into and out of the back of my truck is less-than-pleasing on the back!

Yea, they last longer than a 20lb tank. But I can have three or four smaller tanks ready to plug in at any time. I can throw a small tank into the car and get it swapped out when I fill up the car's tank, or when I'm getting groceries.....

Best solution - get a huge yard tank and have a company come out and refill it once a year!
 
Thank you guys for all of the helpful info. Don brought up the idea of efficiency of a propane forge. What are some ways to make a forge more efficient with propane usage. Also would wrapping the propane tank in insulation help with the freezing issue?

Does a forge need a hole(vent) in both front and back, or just front?
 
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