Pros & Cons of buying USA Made

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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Dec 27, 1998
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St.James & Thom had an interesting discussion on some very hot questions. Unfortunately the subject hijacked the thread, which was a different subject.

The "debate" was being handled in a very civil manner, despite obvious emotion to the question. I for one, as a manufacturer, and as a consumer, would be interested in your opinions and points of view and the reasons for the belief.

The different points of view and the "why's" might provide a bit of a cystal ball, especially for knife manufacturers.

I thought about a thread on the General forum, but thought it would probably be moved because it was OT. I was hoping to bring the discussion here and hope St.James, Thom and any others with opinions might share for the benefit of all. This information would be especially valuable coming from knife aficianados/ELUs/buyers.

The question is multi leveled and effects each of us in different ways, both short and long term.

What do you think?

Try to keep in mind that it would not be valuable to debate over who's opinion might be "right" or "wrong", but a sharing of opnions that we might all learn a "bigger picture".

sal
 
Free trade is the future. I cannot fault any company that pursues policies that are in their own self interests. Specifically for knife companies, i just like to see them bring a good product to market at a competitive price.

I find it ironic that many people that have the "manufactuing jobs" in America that believe the US needs protectist polocies also shop at walmart, and with their typical income bracket they are not able to buy all "American" products.

I beleive that trade with other countries and free trade with other countries, helps the american consummer, and in many cases american jobs (look at the boom in industrials and materials, some attributed to the china boom). Also the more trade countries have between them the better they tend to get along in other areas of international policy.
 
I really don't see a contradiction between supporting US made products and buying foreign goods. Even in the 1940's, everything was not made in the USA. Sometimes it just makes sense for certain items to be produced abroad. That said, I think that believe that manufacturers and the government should care about jobs going overseas. People in this country have to work if companies want to sell their products. The recent movement of service jobs like software engineers and radiology analysis overseas shows that skilled and educated workers can be hurt by the flow of jons overseas just like blue collar, factory workers.

What I'm saying is that US companies owe it to their nation to be creative and think of ways to keep jobs in their home country and turn a profit.
 
Some considerations in a discussion of this question...
1) Human working conditions/health benefits/unemployment payments/social security contributions which cause higher production costs in the USA.
2) Environmental protection/worker safety factors which increase costs.
3) Business taxes which help fund local communities/states/nations.
4) USDA/FDA/other federal agencies attempting to regulate manufacture and trade for consumer safety.
5) Trade inequities with countries housing USA overseas manufacturing ventures with their own harsh restrictions on imports from USA.

OTH...
1) Competition drives improvement/innovation/price.
2) Advancing underdeveloped nations' economies promotes global stability.
3) Economic ties can lead to ideologic compromise/tolerance.
4) One world/one people??
 
Sometimes I find it emotionally satisfying to see "Made in America" on something I own, and sometimes I don't.

If I ever own a Ferrari, I want it made in Italy.
If I ever own a Ford Crown Victoria, I want it made in America (they make 'em Canada).

Ironically, I own a 1993 Suzuki Swift, a Japanese car made in Canada.
I love it.

On the other hand, I once owned a Browning Model 92 lever action rifle, and although well made, the words "Made in Japan" on the barrel seemed too incongruous and I eventually sold it at a loss.

I treasure the words "Golden Colorado U.S.A. Earth" on my Chinook II.
It would not disturb me to see "Made in Japan" on some Spyderco knives, but I would not like to see those words on my Chinook II, especially since James Keating lives in my home state, Oregon.

So, it depends. :)
 
Sal, the term "Made in USA" as stamped on product boxes can actually be misleading. For example, what it can actually mean is ASSEMBLED in the U.S., not all of the components actually being made in the U.S. With quite a large number of die-cast aluminum parts and ball and roller bearings now being made in China, many companies that are claiming their products to be "made in USA" are actually saying "assembled in USA with some U.S.-made parts and some foreign-made parts".

Also, there are companies that can say "made in USA" but the company itself is actually owned by a foreign corporation. "Winchester" is now a subsidiary of FN-Herstal Belgium and that's why the Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun is also the FN Military-Police Shotgun.

In many cases, the foreign product is not only unique to the market, but lower-priced than any U.S. company could make it. There is no way a U.S. firearms company, for example, can build a rifle able to compete price-wise with the Russian Saiga 7.62x39 rifle. This is not a bad thing. The American consumer has choices and if U.S. companies want to compete, they have to find a product that will appeal to the consumer enough to spend the extra dollar. In some cases, U.S. companes won't compete or don't even try. For example, certain American firearms manufacturers probably turn their noses up at the Saiga and also don't want to be politically-incorrect in making sporterized AK-47s. But, the Russians are selling these like hotcakes over here and American companies cannot whine about it if they are not even willing to try and reach that market.

It is increasingly hard to buy American as the quality is not necessarily higher to match the higher price. That is sad to say, but true. I buy the best value for my money. That is, I want a product that will last. I don't mind spending an extra buck for that. And, I'll buy from whatever nation provides that product.
 
This is a difficult topic for me. I must say that I prefer to see made in America on the products that I buy, but I do realize that we are living in a world economy. The competition created is good for the consumer. Take a look at the U.S. auto industry prior to the Japanese invasion during the fuel crisis of the 70's. We now have better products from the American automakers today in a great part due to the competition with the Japanese. I am concerned about the trade imbalance we currently have and the nuber of manufacturing jobs that have left this country. What sort of wartime production abilities will we have if the current trend to send both manufacturing and technical jobs overseas? With the loss of these jobs means less taxes paid by both companies and the individuals employed by the company. I believe free trade is good and competition is very good, but how will the exportation of jobs going to affect the long term future of this country? I have to wonder why the various carmakers have moved production to Canada? Is the labor there that much cheaper than it is here? Someone within the Federal government should be asking that question and try to determine how to get those factories and jobs to return. I suppose I asked more questions than to actually add any meaningful.
 
I dont know how the original topic went. I have a simple outlook on the question here.
I'm in for quality.Period. I have a couple of Gerber Silver Knights from the early to mid 80's. Made in Seki City, they are true art to me. My Delica is top drawer. I love my Buck 110's and the fact that we can go visit Buck. Chris Reeve came from South Africa to make knives for us.
There is going to be different quality levels for different target groups so that is where I look. I have both versions of the Buck Ecco 2.25. There are only 2 minor differences in the Japan made vs. the El Cajon made. One is the steel and the other is a slightly thicker liner lock on the USA version.
One final thought... is there a big difference in contracting to a company in Seki City and contracting to Schrade or Camillus for a knife?
guy
 
I belive the best thing would be all companies offer some USA amd some foreign made goods.This gives you a choise.I don't mind buying overseas products from certain countries.I really do not and will not buy anything made in Mexico or China unless it is something very cheap that I am only planning on useing once.I don't much like the thought of Tiwain ethier although they do seem to be improveing thier products.
Try to buy a TV that is not made in Mexico.I did a couple years ago and had a very hard time finding one.Shopping at Sears and every TV the salesman showed me was made in Mexico.I said I was not going to buy one made there and he said they had alot of people that was saying the same thing.I finnally got a Sony that was made in the US.
I have noticed lately alot of TV manufacturers have pulled back out of Mexico.No way I would give 600.00 for a TV made in Mexico.Now a 19in for the kids room that is not going to be used as much,mostly for vidio games and cost 89.00 that may be a little differant and to tell the truth the kids do have one but it was exchanged twice before we got one that worked right.The firstone remote sensor would not work and the 2nds color was screwed up.
I really don't know were I am going here except to say I just have to feel my way on a case by case basis on where something is made.
 
There really is no right or wrong answer to this. Past purchasing practices aside, I now look for quality. Hopefully "quality" will have the words "Made in the USA" on it. But let's face it, some things are very hard if not impossible to find with those words on it. If a USA product is better than that made elsewhere, that's the one I will go after. But then again, even US based companies that have their manufacturing done overseas are still employing American workers at home base.
Are the people who work at a Japanese car dealership Japanese?
Are there any American electronic manufacturers?
Even products made here are probably using foreign made materials.

The facility where I work (glass factory) has lost jobs to foreign factories. Sadly those facilities are also owned by the company I work for. Our workforce is roughly 1/4 what it was when I started there 23 years ago. Some jobs were lost to automation, others to the work leaving the country. Lay off time is still a very real possibility for me.

Whether we like it or not, we now have a "world economy".
Yes, I still look for a "Made in USA" label. But I've grudgingly accepted the fact that I'm not always going to find it.

Paul
 
I prefer to buy American made goods simply because I live here. But I do beleive in fair competition with other first world economies, i.e. Germany, Japan, Italy, etc., and I will readily buy their goods. It's the second and third world econimies we cannot compete with, i.e. Honduras, India, China, etc. Between low standards of living and politics we cannot compete with their operating costs.
Earlier in this thread there was a remark about pro buy USA people shopping at Walmart. Where I live in NH there is no other place to shop.
 
I my county there is no other dept store except Goodys,two shoe stores and we are getting a Lowes everything else is gas stations and fast food jionts.Even Kmart has closed,not that they were any better than Wal Mart.
 
When purchasing a new knife, my priorities are as follows:

1. Design. Will the knife work well in its intended environment? Someone selecting a folder for use in the office will likely pick a knife very different from someone looking for a knife to use in an emergency/rescue environment.

2. Quality. Is the knife constructed using quality materials with no visible flaws? Materials should be appropriate to the task. Blade steel should hold a fine edge, handle materials should be comfortable yet tough, and lockup should be tight and precise.

3. Price. Is the knife worth its asking price? Some knives are works of art or investments and are priced as such. But for most consumers, knives are everyday, essential tools and should have reasonable prices.

4. Origin. Having the knife made in the USA is a nice bonus.

In the end, the design, quality and price of a knife influence my buying decision much more than the origin. When I recently decided to purchase a Spyderco Dragonfly as my EDC folder, I passed over a number of American-made knives which I felt did not offer the right combination of the first three criteria.
 
What I see as the trouble with the whole Made in America/Made elsewhere issue is that we import many products from countries such as China, Japan just to name a few but these countries limit the number of and type of products they import from us, which makes us importing alot and them not. I have no probelm with imported stuff but I think there needs to be a tit for tat import system in order for our American companies to sell overseas and make money also. China profits from exporting to us but by not allowing the imports they also control what is sold there and keeps their own economy better off. We on the other hand import alot but dont get the export they do so we hurt ourselves......
 
Capitalism = competition....bring it on



Sanctuary God gives all men all earth to love, But, since man's heart is small, Ordains for each one spot shall prove, Beloved over all.
--Rudyard Kipling
 
I prefer American made. I'm very willing to pay more for a product that is American made.

But if I only have a choice between two similar products, one which is made in American and one that is of foreign origin, and the foreign piece is of better quality, I'll take the foreign piece.

I may be willing to pay more for American made, but I'm not willing to compromise the quality of my puchases.
 
True "Free Trade" is anything but possible in the current world market. It is a pie-in-the sky ideal, touted by those who believe that because the US is a capitalist and profit driven economy, that we therefore must be "evil", and "free trade" is the solution to the great economic injustices of the world.

What is missing from the big equation is that the American worker not only enjoys a better pay rate for his labor, but also the protections of OSHA, Worker's Comp, Social Security, the minimum wage etc. The foreign worker often does not.

Now before someone chimes in and states that many of those government regulated policies often fail to completed their intended purpose, note I would agree in some cases. However, there are still many protective and commercial regulations in place for the American worker, that affect way manufacturing takes place here. If they were removed, to balance the factors influencing trade costs, workers would generally suffer.

In the end, I for one believe that true free trade will only exist in this country if we are willing to allow more workers to live in cardboard boxes, the western equivalent of mud huts.

To more directly answer Sal's question, I generally look to US made tools when I need the best quality and reliability. Generally, I find that when something is made in the US, from US made components, it tends to look, feel, and operate better. I also find that it is more durable. If it is something my life may depend upon, such as an emergency light, or rescue knife, I by far prefer US made.

Given this, I own both US and Japanese manufactured Spyderco knives. In this group there are examples of excellent quality in both, and individual knives serve different purposes. As long as the quality is present, I can _accept_ both. If there is a choice however, I will spend some more to get US quality (noting US manufacture is not the only requirement - the tratidional, expected quality must also be evident).

Unfortunately, there are items that simply do not seem to be available in US made versions anymore. Chinese imports are becoming the only option for some products, and even though quality often lacks, no other choices are readliy available.

To make a long story short, I believe that some imports, from some sources, can be acceptable to the quality concious consumer. There are other sources on manufacture however, that will not be acceptable for a long time to come.
 
Purely from a knife buying perspective (non-US citizen), I don't care where Spyderco get some of their knives made, because time and again they have proved that the quality control at their Seki plant is top notch, and now they have proved it with their Ti-Salsa made in Tiawan.

I do tend to look for the knives made from the US Golden plant though, mainly because it tends to use the knife materials I really like (G-10, CPM-440V and S30v).
 
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