Prussian Sword 1715/1744

[Jens Schuetz]

The handle doesn't look ergonomic the guard not very protective and the 1744 version has only a 25-26 inch long blade.

Still, the since my 5x great grandfather probably had one when his inf. regiment tried to stop Napoleon 1806 at Jena, I think I'll have to do some research about it.

Now I'm looking for more information and maybe even a source which makes usable reproductions, either sharp or blunt, for training, or both.

Thank you!!!

(The left two)
Source: https://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=249196

 

[kevin -the professor]

well, it was an infantry sword in a time when people were shorter (I think that was a relatively shorter period due to war and nutrition issues being constant for most people in that part of Europe). I would like to see it have a 28" blade. For a curved blade like that, 30" is too much, it makes it difficult to stab without bending your wrist back since it is also difficult to get the point in line just right. Shorter is easier. Doesn't get in the way of your musket as much, either.

Of course, it is still formidable. I like those hangers, although I never get around to making them. I always get caught up in daos and jian. I could easily make you the blade, or trick it out with pattern welding. The hilt would have been machine finished instead of hand finished, and that makes it a ton easier.

Still, the handle is the biggest challenge. That, and the etchings. They would have to be done with a resist and immersion in acid. If you goof that, you will have to repolish the blade.

 

[der_vincent]

Hi Jens,

that's a very interesting Prussian Sword... good luck for your search!
As soon as you got your Hands on one, please tell how it feels in Hand & how it handles makes me curious.

Cheers, Erik

 

[Jens Schuetz]

well, it was an infantry sword in a time when people were shorter (I think that was a relatively shorter period due to war and nutrition issues being constant for most people in that part of Europe). I would like to see it have a 28" blade. For a curved blade like that, 30" is too much, it makes it difficult to stab without bending your wrist back since it is also difficult to get the point in line just right. Shorter is easier. Doesn't get in the way of your musket as much, either.

Of course, it is still formidable. I like those hangers, although I never get around to making them. I always get caught up in daos and jian. I could easily make you the blade, or trick it out with pattern welding. The hilt would have been machine finished instead of hand finished, and that makes it a ton easier.

Still, the handle is the biggest challenge. That, and the etchings. They would have to be done with a resist and immersion in acid. If you goof that, you will have to repolish the blade.

Thank you Professor Kevin.
I'd be interested in one which just has the same shape and behaves the same way. I wouldn't need any etching and fancy stuff :-D
I think I'll do some research regarding thickness and weight distribution etc. and then contact you via the email address on your homepage. I just saw a great Messer there too.

 

[Jens Schuetz]

Hi Jens,

that's a very interesting Prussian Sword... good luck for your search!
As soon as you got your Hands on one, please tell how it feels in Hand & how it handles makes me curious.

Cheers, Erik

Of course. I'm super curious as well and will let you know.

 

[horseclover]

There are some reproductions that emulate a similar pattern. India made and often listed as an English cutlass or Bunker Hill sword.

There was needle etching done during the period that was basically a wax resist then art drawn through the wax with a needle. As to behaving like a pewriod sword, the issues are generally that modern production typically use thinner stock for the blades but despite thaat usually end up with a heavier than period sword.

25" to 30" of blade for an infantry sword of the time quite common and a sidearm for up close once the muskets were of less use. Past the period of our American revolution, the bayonet was becoming the order of the day for land troops but hangers/cutlasses more than often retained for naval use (right up to WWII).

Here is a sabre in my collection with a 25 1/2" blade. While still well proportioned, a little shorter than the eagle pommel widebody below with a blade about 28". I think you will find less than 30" quite common for swords of the period with even the cavalry blades (think British 1796 light cavalry) with blades usually in the 32" range.

Even a 32" blade can look huge until in hand, pictures showing a larger than life appearance, say from a Starr 1818 cavalry sword. In hand, honestly feeling a bit toy like compared to larger and heavier cavaly swords through history.

The cute little eagle pair here shows some of the long and short of it. Compare the two hussar tpe hilts right above those and see one infantry and one cavalry tpe. Even that large hussar shorter than the 34" blade "wristbreaker" at the top.

Nielo-sword, a Czech maker, might tackle a reproduction of this type of sword but haggle to get the best blade properties possible.

Cheers

GC

 

[Jens Schuetz]

There are some reproductions that emulate a similar pattern. India made and often listed as an English cutlass or Bunker Hill sword.

...
Cheers

GC

Thank you Horseclover.
I like your collection very much. Handling so many different ones must have given you a pretty good idea how different patterns behave and what you prefer.

Your pointers helped me to figure out that those Prussian sabers have been used by Americans during the revolutionary war! How cool is that? I wonder how they made it accross the pond. Anyways, it's easier to find replicas under "revolutionary war sword".
Hanwei (Paul Chen?) makes a revolutionary war hanger. It is identical except that it has no pretty etching and that handle and guard aren't made out of brass. Should be functional, but I've no clue if handle and blade weight are close to the originals.

 

[horseclover]

The Hanwei sword is not unlike the Windlass pirate captain sword. I've not handled either but the Hanwei seems to get the most positive comments.

There is no doubt that swords of all European countries are fair game for the 18th century Americas. One would think though that most were worn there en masse by prepared troops. I haven't looked in my Neumann "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" but that is a great book for browsing and economical. One other site you might enjoy is theroyalsword.com The owner is responsive to emails. Limited stock.

I don't have any of the period cast grip swords but the Prussian type you show probably has more research into handling than the French type briquet. One can still find late Spanish briquet for cheap.

The heart shape counterguards appear on a number of countries hangers of the early 18th century. The simple stirrup and D guard briquet come along in the 1750s. The French had removed half the guard on their somewhat earlier troop de marines hangers.

Cheers

GC

 

[Jens Schuetz]

The Hanwei sword is not unlike the Windlass pirate captain sword....

Cheers

GC

Thank you for the book. Will also check out the homepage.

Some reviewer referred to the Prussian/American revolutionary hanger as "Jack Sparrow" sword. Almost a reason not to get it :-D

That they kept using it in naval setting makes sense, close quarters and all. While the infantry itself improved their guns and deemed bayonets as sufficient for last ditch emergencies.

I was wondering how such equipment made it to America in the past. Did the sword makers simply make more and sold them through merchants across the ocean. Or did the Prussian government pack up some over stocks and send them to America as support of the revolution or to make money? Just curious how such things were done back then.

How come British, French and Prussians had similar handles? It doesn't look very revolutionary in design that everybody had to adopt it because it was so much better. Also it wouldn't have taken much to improve on it. Did they all have the same suppliers?

Prussians also cut their guard in half at some point so it doesn't rub too much when marching.

Thanks GC. It's fun talking swords with you.

 

[kevin -the professor]

Let me know. Summer is sword time for me - I don't teach during the Summer. Last year I made a couple of jian. This year, I am making sabers. I am making a miao dao (or a dandao - the really long, two-handed Chinese saber in a project designed my Scott Rodell). A smaller saber would be fun. With or without pattern welding.

 

[drpibb_]

I was wondering how such equipment made it to America in the past. Did the sword makers simply make more and sold them through merchants across the ocean. Or did the Prussian government pack up some over stocks and send them to America as support of the revolution or to make money? Just curious how such things were done back then.

Late to the discussion but I have some information that might be useful! (Couldn't help myself when I saw a discussion about Prussian )
I definitely wouldn't call myself a master of sword knowledge, I'm just browsing to learn more, but I am a major history buff and that counts for something, right?
Although the Prussian government didn't officially support America in the war, their former general, Baron Friedrick Wilheim von Steuben, came overseas to help train American troops and served as Inspector and Major General. It would be logical that he would bring some weapons with him, especially since what the troops had were mainly what was stolen from British stockpiles.
As far as your question about the similar make of the British, French, and Prussian swords:
Franco-Prussian relationships were very close during this time period, but later drifted. French culture was so deeply ingrained in Prussian life that Friedrick Wilheim II (the Great) can be quoted as calling the German language "barbaric". I would assume craftmanship of many things mimicked or was inspired by the French. I'm not well versed in British history so I couldn't tell you where they fit in, unfortunately. :/

Hope this answers something!

 

[Drunken_sailors]

Hello,

it is probably too late now but i will write it anyway.

I have this sword in my coletion from battle of Austerlitz. If you want some dimensions, weight, photos or something I can provide them.

There is a lot of blacksmiths that can recreate it for you.