Puma does it again!

Alarion

Alarion

Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
1,375
I examined some new Puma knives from a recent show in Italy.
I got this full tang hunter with stag scales.

The blade finish was crappy, with uneven grind marks all over the blade.
The ridgeline at the spine was wobbly near the ricasso at one side of the blade, straight but on different height on the other!:eek: :barf:

Man, I've been making knives for less than six months now but I can already get a better finish than that on my knives!

The blade has been proudly marked as "rockwell tested". They could spare the rockwel test IMNSHO, and give the blade a better finish!

The grip is very approximated, it's affixed to the tang with two peened pins in brass bushings. One pin was evidently cracked during peening (did they anneal them before trying to peen them????) and hastily repaired with a spot weld with a MIG welder, they didn't even bother to sand the spot weld level... :grumpy:

Man, this knives are crap and they sell at higher prices than some custom makers!
They are not some pre-production runs, they are knives brought to a national show to show the best they can do! :rolleyes:

To make things worse is the fact that, up until a few years ago, Puma made some of the best production knives money could buy. They were almost on par with some custom makers production standard. It's a shame...
 
Interesting comments about the fit and finish, these should not be issues at the prices of these knives. Anyone have any information on how they perform?

-Cliff
 
If the Rockwell test is to be trusted, I believe they are good performers (yes, I know rockwell hardness is not everything and that if heat treatment is as crappy as finish you may have good rockwell hardness but a coarse grained brittle blade.
If they were priced somewhere less than a half their price, you could even call them good knives, something like "best value" or such.
But at certain prices fit and finish are as much important as actual performance.
 
I know what your saying! 13 years ago when I was station in Germany, while in the AF, the finish and fit of their knives were awesome, now I do not think much of them.
 
I went over to get my new SS "Cricket" and "BenchMite" and the OWNER of my regular knife shop told me that Puma quality had gone down the drain. (He was plumb disgusted!) I thought of my several year old Puma "Bantam" and how great a knife it still is. This is a sad thing for knife collectors.

KR
 
I agree that their quality is not what it used to be but I did recently purchase a Puma Original Bowie from Held's and I am very pleased with it.

It came with a fine (thin) edge and very sharp (shaved the hair on my arm and sliced paper cleanly). The blade is ground symetrically and the stag scales match. It dosen't have the brass washers, just the stainless steel pins.

The price was fair ($75.00 + $8.00 for shipping).

I like the way the blade is ground and I like the weight of the knife...it's not heavy for this size bowie.

I am pleased with it and think it's a fair value for the quality and performance.

Cheers,
Collector
 
Puma uses 1.4110, wich is 440A- steel. They guaranty a HRC above 57 and every knife is tested, that it has HRC 57 minimum.

Last year, Puma came out with a new folder serie, where they proclaimed a hardness of HRC 58, same steel.

They insist so much on hardness and testing of each knife (with warranty number ongoing each piece), considering german market.

It´s an easy argument for selling the knifes. Not more.

Knifes are not so popular here, so there is a lower quality standard. People usually buying cheap knifes. Instead of this they wouldn´t buy cheap cars, even if they hold them for two or three years, but they can´t see, why buying high quality knifes, wich they could hold for 25 years.

I wouldn´t buy a knife of 440A with a hardness above HRC 57, because it could be up to 59. If Puma would guaranty a hardness between HRC 56 - 58. O.K. if the rest is right.

I have a Puma folder wich is over 12 years old. The blade was/is fine. The pins started to get lose after a few years. Considering german waranty customs, i never thought about returning for repair in the past. Now i´m to lazy for this. It did his job well.

BTW. I am a BM-fan. I recieved about 5 Knifes from them. Every knife had mistakes. One blade was bad tempered, an other locking liner was so bad, they tried to adjust it by handgrinding and abviously burned the steel it scratched so hard over the tang and was hard to release, one came with no cuted corners on the G10 scales..

I say, S**t happens. Important is, are the knifemakers promise a standard of quality (Bm does, Busse does...), you can relay on. Are they giving you produktinformation, wich help you forward, if something is or seems to be wrong with your knife. That counts for me. Considering this, there are people, who returned their razorblades to Puma for resharpening after 25 years of usage, they recieved the razors back free of costs.

Resume: Puma is a knifemaker wich could be pushed to higher standards, if their customers want this.
 
Originally posted by rev_jch
I know what your saying! 13 years ago when I was station in Germany, while in the AF, the finish and fit of their knives were awesome, now I do not think much of them.
Click to expand...

They outsourced part of their production... Many FBs were made by Mikov.

David
 
Puma is a producer which did great knives, in the past.
Now, fit and finish are not up with the prices you pay for their knives. 75$ for a knife with a cracked pin (which means some gross mistake was made during fitting) and a blade which is not even symmetric is far too much.
440A is one of the cheapest steels out there.

To make a comparison, I can get a hand forged, differentially tempered knife for 90$, and for the same price or even less I can get an italian made knife from Maserin or Fox which is perfectly (factory grade) finished, well made and outperforms the Puma, so why in the world should I, or anybody else, put up with such crap?

Puma is now handled by the original owner's son. It seems the guy thought that, since he had a name, he could just let standards and manifacture drop, lower the costs and make some bucks more selling crappy knives at the same prices the former, finely made knives fetched.
No way.
Not for me at least.
 
Pumas are way overpriced. They seem to be making money off the reputation they (rightfully) gained 20 or 30 years ago with hunters and collectors of traditional patterns.

Their latest (?) models are a bunch of very small integrals made of ordinary 440B. Even the most basic model - which doesn't even have scales, let alone bells and whistles - of this series sells for more than most custom makers would charge for a similar blade.

I honestly don't know why anybody would want to buy a Puma considering their high prices and poor performance.
 
Interesting reading about the state of PUMA knives haven't owned one in years but the ones I had owned were excellent well made knives. One of our group used the White Hunter in the bush and it did a spendid job.
With the many excellent knives out there now they won't last long in the international market if in Germany.
 
Of course Germany can produce quality knives and I've seen them but I avoid them now. I've owned many German made, (including Puma), knives since the '70's and their quality control has always been all over the board.

My first Puma was a stag handled "Emperor" large lockback folder that I purchased in 1975. It seemed very quality at first but it developed severe blade play after about a year of use. I've experienced this in other Puma folders.

I ordered a Puma "Fisherman's Knife" with the big round "knockout" ball or "priest" on the end from a catalog in 1978 and couldn't believe what I found when I opened the box. The blade had so much play it was ridiculous! The finish was terrible and the "priest" or knockout ball looked like it had been shot multiple times at point blank range with a shotgun! All this on a brand new knife. Needless to say, I returned it. I did find another example years later though that was perfect.

I think their fixed blades are fine but nothing extraordinary. I've just experienced wild quality swings from one German made knife to the next whatever the brand.
 
It's sad but true. German cutlery particularly their folders are not what they used to be. After looking at the poor quality of several Böker and Puma knives, I've been dissapointed. In my opinion, over the last decade, American and Japanese made knives have set the standard when it comes to quality in workmanship. Now, Taiwanese made knives are moving up.

I own several European folding knives, mainly Spanish and French which I have found to be at times good and at times poor, so I never expect them to be equal to say Spyderco or Benchmade, but the recent line of Puma folders imported by Coast Cutlery and recent stuff from Böker don't even come close to that of basic Schrade knives. The only consistently decent stuff coming out of Europe these days are Italian knives.
 
The pumas I had owned were the white hunter, and a lockback folder (I think it was called the general?). Both were of very high quality I bought these in 1990.
Quality control does seem to vary with some german companies. I hve to say though I own several Linder knives which all have good quality control, not perfect, but good.
Its very dissappointing to see where the company has gone. I purchased a handic this last year with stag inlay. I opened the box to have the inlay half separated from the handle. You could see the hot glue they used to attach the inlay!!!
 
You should try italian knives too :)
Fox, Maserin and Extrema Ratio.
Extrema Ratio once mad not all that good knives, but now they are doing really amazing stuff.
They made a fighter for the italian special forces which is simply awesome.

Fox and Maserin make very good everyday users. I own some of them and have always performed flawlessly, at a price that is a fraction of some CRKT or other famous manufacturers.

Now, I don't want to make this become a "bash the german knives, way to go Italians", especially as being italian myself I may appear biased. I assure you this is not the case (make a search and look what I hade to say some months ago about Extrema Ratio).
But try out some of these knives.
They are _reallly_ good.
I have a Fox folder I own since 1995. I used it as utility knife in the army. Did almost every kind of work with it. Last year I wrote an article for an italian knife magazine, comparing the 7 year old with a new one Fox sent us. It was so difficult to distinguish between the old and the new one that my chief editor accidentally repacked my old knife to send it back to Fox instead of the new one!
I had my knife back luckily: it's well tried and never failed me, even if I used it a lot, for tasks a folder is not well suited for (such as being swung hatchet like to fall a small tree to use as flag pole) and didn't want a new one in exchange :D
I thinks that "I don't want a new one, I just want to have my old one back" is the best thing one can say about anything :)
I Paid that knife the equivalent of 50$ ...
 
Seen it too. It was the only one of the whole bunch I actually liked, but showed awful grind marks, irregular finish, crappy finish of grip.
If yours is one of the older production it should be a hell of aknife.
It's not Puma knives in general I find disgusting. Older ones were very well finished knives.
It's current production which has worst finish than some chinese stuff I've seen, and this is not hyperbole. Compared them and found the chinese better made, even if probably the steel is better in the Puma.
 
They made 5000 and mine is 50 something, so its one of the very first ones. The handles required a little radiusing with a ceramic stone to give that 'custom' feel and the edge needed a sharpen as the angle was a little low for my taste! I guessing it was set to 25 degree's per side 50 OA.

I like mine at 20 per side.

However fit is otherwise excellent and this is a very very good knife. Then again considering the price I am going to say that right?:p
 
A friend of mine has one of the first folders by Puma. A small one, with green scales.
Well, it's very well made and a top notch production knife.
 
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