Puma New VS Puma Vintage

A

aliownzu

Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
2
Hello,
I am new to the knife world and am looking to buy an excellent hunting knife, mainly for skinning, but would be nice if it has other uses.

I am looking at a 2011 Puma White Hunter. Also I am looking at several vintage Puma hunting knives made in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

I read in this forum that Puma Knives made after the mid 90's are not made with the best quality as they used to make. The link is at the bottom about that discussion.

Please let me know the advantages and disadvantages of owning a 2011 Puma and a Puma Vintage Knife.

Please help, I am in need of a knife and need your views. Also please let me know other knives companies that make excellent hunting knives which are on the same level or better than Puma.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...of-puma-knives
 
I collect a few Puma patterns and the older knives are really much nicer than the new ones. Fit, finish, and general production quality seems better but I cannot comment on the steel quality and heat treating.

Personally for a little more money I would look at a Dozier or even a full custom from someone like Ray Laconico. You will find them better made, better designed and more ergonomic than a White Hunter.

Good luck with your hunt........Steven
 
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but the white hunter is so sweet looking..i just wish they still used the pumaster steel of the past
 
aliownzu said:
Hello,
I am new to the knife world and am looking to buy an excellent hunting knife, mainly for skinning, but would be nice if it has other uses.

I am looking at a 2011 Puma White Hunter. Also I am looking at several vintage Puma hunting knives made in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

I read in this forum that Puma Knives made after the mid 90's are not made with the best quality as they used to make. The link is at the bottom about that discussion.

Please let me know the advantages and disadvantages of owning a 2011 Puma and a Puma Vintage Knife.

Please help, I am in need of a knife and need your views. Also please let me know other knives companies that make excellent hunting knives which are on the same level or better than Puma.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...of-puma-knives
Click to expand...

First of all, you need to tell us, what you need skinning - gerbils or elephants....or everything inbetween?
The Puma White Hunter is a pretty big knife and a smaller one might do.
The name of the knife is a good indicator of what was its intended purpose when initially brought out.

The PUMA White Hunter was developed in 1956 in conjunction with the East African Professional Hunter’s Association to be the leading knife for big game hunting.

Its a classic.


Here is my old but good quality good condition Puma WH
 
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This knife was given to me by a good friend, when another well liked much smaller Puma knife was stolen by some low life scumbag on a hunting trip. I cant and wont part with it:)
 
Bladescout, Any idea what the "Pumaster" steel was/is? Is it carbon or stainless? Seems like they no longer make any non stainless knives which has kept me from trying these nice looking knives.

Joe
 
I've got some older Pumas that I inherited from a friend's grandfather, and they're lovely knives. Based on my experience with those, I bought a few of the newer ones and didn't like them much. Their current offerings are not in the same league as their knives from some decades ago. Plus, at their price point, I want something more than 440C.

Besides, good condition vintage Pumas hold their value since there are quite a few collectors interested in them.
 
Pumaster steel is a hard chromed carbon steel, a fact which is in the 1984 Puma dealer brochure i own.
Sadly i don't know which type of carbon steel is under that thin chrome layer, but i do know it performs very well in both small and large knives and it seems to like a bit of refinement when sharpening.
Best results up to now are with 6 micron diamond compound on a Paper Wheel.

I'm also quite happy with the performance of Puma's "Stainless Super Keen Cutting Steel" from the '60's, '70's, and '80's, which does very well in smaller knives.
This steel seems to like both a 14 to 15 micron edge as well as a 6 micron edge, and edge holding for me is comparable to a well hardened 440C or 154CM steel.
My 1969 Jagdnicker pictured below keeps an arm hair shaving edge after several afternoons of whittling various kinds of green wood, which is perfectly fine for me.

PumaJagdnicker005-2-1.jpg
 
I do not disagree that many fine custom makers here on the forum will give the older Puma's a run for the money in the quality department. Also, the beauty of having a custom is you get it the way you want it.....kind of like Burger King. :D

However, if you are indeed in search of a White Hunter, the older the better IMO. I have two, both pre-64's.
IMG_5359_zpsbb367d85.jpg
 
The Mastiff said:
Bladescout, Any idea what the "Pumaster" steel was/is? Is it carbon or stainless? Seems like they no longer make any non stainless knives which has kept me from trying these nice looking knives.

Joe
Click to expand...


The Pumaster steel is 'high carbon' steel.

PumaUSAs blurb on the current steel for the WH goes as follows:

The PUMA® White Hunter knife is handmade in Solingen, Germany, and has long set the standard for the ultimate hunting knife. The PUMA White Hunter was developed in 1956 in conjunction with the East African Professional Hunter’s Association to be the leading knife for big game hunting.

The PUMA White Hunter’s featured stag handles – which are made from the shed antlers of Wild Stag – are formed via a meticulous manufacturing process and make the knife a truly unique, one-of-a-kind tool. First, each scale is boiled, stabilized, and dried over a period of weeks. Then, the handle is individually cut and hand fitted to your knife. Brass rivets are used to attach the scales to the knife. The rivet heads are filed and, finally, the handle is burnished to a precise size and shape for optimal fit and function.

The PUMA blade is German-grade 1.4116 stainless steel for sharpness retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance. During formation of the initial steel bars, trace elements such as carbon, chromium and silicon are added to maintain the temper yet inhibit rust. Other trace elements, such as manganese, phosphorus, sulfur, and molybdenum, are also added to give the blade better structural strength and consistency by aligning the molecules more evenly during cooling. After the initial steel bars are formed, the blade is hot-drop forged, wherein the steel bars are heated to 3150-4200 degrees Fahrenheit. Once heated, the blade is placed between two dies and mechanically forged under 2200 pounds of pressure to fit the shape of the dies. The hot drop forging process not only shapes the blade, but it also further improves the molecular structure of the steel. Once the PUMA blade is forged, it is tempered and hand finished in 22 separate steps by skilled craftsmen. Each step uses increasingly fine lubricants, oil coolants, and special polishing grease.
 
This is still my crown jewel, a Puma 6376 Bowie in Pumaster Steel from 1978:

Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_1.jpg
Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_10.jpg
Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_2.jpg


Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_3.jpg
Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_5.jpg
Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_6.jpg


Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_7.jpg
Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_8.jpg
Vintage_Puma_6376_Bowie_-_9.jpg


Specs:

Overall length: 12.8 inch (32,5 cm)
Blade length: 7.9 inch (20,0 cm)
Blade thickness: 6.6 mm
Steel: Genuine Pumaster Steel (forged & hardchromed carbon steel)
Hardness: 61 HRC
Handle material: Sambar Stag with aluminum guard
Weight: 413,0 grams
 
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And my latest find, a Puma Hunter's Friend from 1978, also in Pumaster steel.
It is used and has quite a lot of scratches, but i gave it a new 6 micron edge and also took the liberty of re-cutting the fine serrations with a small diamond file, as the old ones were almost gone.

GEDC6423.jpg
GEDC6424.jpg
GEDC6425.jpg


GEDC6426.jpg
GEDC6427.jpg
GEDC6428.jpg


GEDC6429.jpg
GEDC6421.jpg
 
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Thank you for the info Kwackster and Blade Scout. By the time I could afford Pumas they already had changed. I've never been fortunate enough to find a good condition vintage one available at the same time I had the cash. I recall in my younger days admiring the looks of Puma lockbacks but they were well out of my price range. Kwackster, that 6376 Bowie is one beautiful, elegant blade. Nicer than many customs I've seen.

Joe
 
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The Mastiff said:
Thank you for the info Kwackster and Blade Scout. By the time I could afford Pumas they already had changed. I've never been fortunate enough to find a good condition vintage one available at the same time I had the cash. I recall in my younger days admiring the looks of Puma lockbacks but they were well out of my price range. Kwackster, that 6376 Bowie is one beautiful, elegant blade. Nicer than many customs I've seen.

Joe
Click to expand...
No problem. Too bad I couldnt narrow it further down than 'high carbon' steel. Hope you manage to find a good condition vintage WH - they are out there.
 
BladeScout said:
PumaUSAs blurb on the current steel for the WH goes as follows:

The PUMA blade is German-grade 1.4116 stainless steel for sharpness retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance. During formation of the initial steel bars, trace elements such as carbon, chromium and silicon are added to maintain the temper yet inhibit rust. Other trace elements, such as manganese, phosphorus, sulfur, and molybdenum, are also added to give the blade better structural strength and consistency by aligning the molecules more evenly during cooling. After the initial steel bars are formed, the blade is hot-drop forged, wherein the steel bars are heated to 3150-4200 degrees Fahrenheit. Once heated, the blade is placed between two dies and mechanically forged under 2200 pounds of pressure to fit the shape of the dies. The hot drop forging process not only shapes the blade, but it also further improves the molecular structure of the steel. Once the PUMA blade is forged, it is tempered and hand finished in 22 separate steps by skilled craftsmen. Each step uses increasingly fine lubricants, oil coolants, and special polishing grease.
Click to expand...

1.4116, no matter what they do to it, is not a very exciting steel. I'd be OK with it on a budget knife, but it's a far cry from the kind of stainless steel that should go into any "premium" knife. I'm not saying they should go crazy chasing after the newest steel of the month, but there are MUCH better options than what they're using.

These are expensive knives, a White Hunter goes for about $400. Would you be happy with a Sebenza that came with a 420hc blade?
 
Im not into the Sebenza (though no doubt a quality knife), so Ill pass on that one, so as not to derail the thread.

Suffice it to say, that I agree about it not being very exiting that the newer Puma White Hunter knives are made using 'stainless steel.'

I only have the one early seventies made White Hunter and am very happy about it not being SS - but then most knives I buy are carbon steel knives.
 
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