PVC piping or metal (HVAC) Question.

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Aug 13, 2002
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I am making a dust collector for my buffers and mainly my belt sander. I am now to the point of deciding about the ducting. Would PVC hold up to the sparks or do I have to go with metal instead. Any advice from those who already have a similar system installed would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Pad
 
It has been my experience that PVC doesn't hold up around hot metal, but will, along with other plastics, hold up in a dust collection system if used downstream from the heat source. If you're serious about dust you need to step up to 6- or 8-inch size piping. The little 2.5 inch shopvac size isn't sufficient to handle it. They move a relatively small volume of air fast. You want to move a large volume.
I use some typical 8-inch steel fittings ala hardware store/Home Depot to collect and initially transport the hot grindings. Then I use 8-inch steel-wire reinforced plastic flexi tube to transport it to big gate valves (both available from MSC, but not cheap).
I don't remember the exact specs on my dust collector, but it's a 55-gallon drum-head type. 2-hp. 3,600 rpm Delta with a gaint puff-up final filter bag. It pulls enough CFM to do the job. If you aren't careful, it will suck a rag right out of your hand without the slightest difficulty. I would like a surplus Torit industrial unit, but have had a hard time finding one tht isn't really huge that can perform equal to my Delta. I think I paid $200 on Ebay for it.
The advantage of going with larger CFM and bigger plumbing is that it creates a much greater 'gravitational-like field' pulling in more grinding debris. The smaller dust systems will collect fine, but only the stuff that's shot right into it.
Here is a link to a picture on my site that will give you an idea of the material I use for my plumbed dust collection.

http://www.caswellstudios.com/SwordPages/BodyPages/tools/SurfaceGrinder.html

For open wheel belt grinders, (Bader, KMG, countless homemade units, etc.), you will likely find plumbed dust collection systems inadequate. These grinders shoot the bulk of the grindings down, but fixing a dust-collection scoop under there is darned inconvenient. Also, these open wheel machines produce a lot of fine debris that will never be sucked into a static system.
I ran into a good solution at Bill Herndon's shop. You get one of those big, belt driven whole house fans with exterior louvers (38 inches or so). Stick that baby in the wall preferably right behind or next to your grinder and blow all that stuff right on out. The heavy grindings just stack up on the ground and you sweep 'em up, but all that little stuff just goes right out. This is also good to run when forging, welding (other than TIG), running hydraulic equipment that may fume oil vapor, using misters for coolant, are cleaning off anything with compressed air, or if it's just too hot in the shop. You want to use a belt-drive unit (preferabbly with a sealed motor) because the type with the typical non-sealed motor in the center will not appreciate all that fine metal dust in it's works (poof/zap!)
Sorry for the lengthy epistle.
Hope it helps.
 
Hi Padrig...I don't have a dust colecting system.And I guess it would only be fair to tell you I was a sheet metal wrker for 18 years.I think the question is more one of air flow,pvc will not really be affected by sparks ,especially if you go schedule 40 which most pipe other than sprinkler pipe is.problem with PVC is when you get to the bigger sizes 4-6 inch it starts getting costly.The orther plastic pipe you haven't mention is ABS it would probably work well. It's more economical ,it's DWV what your drain,waste,and vent pipes in most houses are made of now.It is a foam core pipe ,not solid plasic like PVC.There is also flex ducting of many sorts but when buffing you'll build up lint pockets and sparks can be an issue.You confused enough yet?Now back to air flow ,every time you put a turn in a duct you cause resitsence and slow the air,the more drastic the turn well I think you get my drift.I don't know how big your fan is,or how many c.f.m/(cubic feet per minute)<but in these cases the more you have the marrier.So for my money I'd run sheet metal ,make the main run as large as the inlet on the fan .If you have to reduce it be cause fo space run it as large as you can as far as you can then reduce .Run a branch line to each piece of equipment,if you don't have real heavy fileings you can run alluminum flex the last few feet.Go to sheetmetal shop and get a TOEKICK register box,boot, fitting,for your equipment.Useally they come in2 1/4"x???10...12...14 .So really whqat it is is a square to round ,the round conections are in commen sizes,4".5".6".....Now you can also get valume dampers at these shops all they do is regulate the air flow.It's basicly a round disc of metal inside a section of round duct which blocks the air as much or little asyou like.So for arguement sake lets say you can take off the fan with 10"(If it is square ,get a sq.to round madeyou may have to with platic if you go that way) run as close as you can to first piece of equipment put a 10x 6 x8 wyeput a volume damper and run to the flex which is hooked to the toekick box .Put an 8x6x6 wye with dampers on each 6" run to the other machines.If you have 4 or five machines you do the same when your useing two fo the machines at once just close the damper on the other one.DON'T SCREW THE FITTINGS IF YOU DON'T HAVE TOO,JUST TAPE (YOU NEED TO CLEAN PULL TAPE CLEAN ...REASSEMBLE)<<<ESPECIALLY ON THE BUFFERS.Use plent of supports..Same thing if you do use PVC don't glue the last few fittings so you can clean.Well thats from a guy who don't have a dust collector system.I just posted and seen J Caswells post so I thought I tell you Harbor Freight tools has the puff up unit J's talking about I think I've seen them on sale !169.99 this week--if you have a local store.>>>Good Luck......My emails in my profile if you have ?????Michael
 
on the woodworking sites they talk down PVC cause of the static discharge and dust explosions in the systems. You can get by with it by running grounding wires but, well it still looks like plastic..:barf:
 
Thanks for all the info.

JCaswell, dont apologize for helping. The more info the better. The big fan with louver is not possible since I live in a residential neighbourhood where the proximity of the other houses might make the lovely draft a little unpleasant for the neighbours. ;) But still what the collector takes out will be enough to start.

I have already bought a type of blower. What was in my price range and also available since we dont have such nice stores as HF, McMasterCarr, etc here in Quebec. :(

Hogdog, let me take a pic of my setup and motor to give you a better idea. But I think I have a pretty good idea of where to go with your good info.

Pics coming.

Pad
 
Well here are the pics of the blower (1HP, 600 CFM, 4" inlet and outlet) and the sander/buffer/welding area.

Collector1.jpg


Collector2.jpg


Collector3.jpg


Will making a bigger inlet adaptor and bigger outlet (square) give me more CFM?

Thanks again for all your help.

Pad
 
Hi Padrig : yea looks like your almost there.The ? about makeing the outlet bigger..Idon't think it will give you more cfm because the fan is pretty much sized for the housing.these fan are rated at static pressure. the only way to increase the CFM is to change the pitch on the blades (thats not going to fly ,or by speeding pu the motor. I think the trick with your set up is try and not restrick the air any more than absolutely needed . You can increase the inlet ,witch will improve the volume, and will allow you to increase the duct size so to use commen sized ducts holding down the costs.Also increasing the system as a whole and By holding down fiction loss .By the pictures I see it looks like the inlet is a 4" and the outlet is a 5/6"...Even if it isn't you can buy a taper about 10" / 6" taper take the inlet plate off cut a 10 1/8" round hole in it,(cutting out the 4") or what ever size it is .Scibe a 1/2" mark all the way around the 10" end of the taper with sheetmetal snips make a series of cuts (about every 3/4")all the way around the 10" end of the taper,creating a bunch of little tabs. Now bend every other tab out at a 90 degree angle, and every other one (only slight) in.Hold it ion the 101/8' hole you cut and the tabs yuo bent slightly in will be inside the hole.Hole the fitting snug up against the plate ,with your hammer pean over the inside tabs.First do one then like you where tightning wheel lugs go across pantern the one fineal time go all the way around untill there all bent up aginst the plate .Put 5/6 screws in the tabs from the out sid (you may need to pre drill going into the plastic) don't make your holes so big the screw dosn't suck up tight,caulk w 1/part polyurethane caulking and your ready to run your ducts. Now all these sizes I've thrown at you may have to be adjusted if all you can get you hands on is 5" or 7" .From what I geather in the pictures your picking up three pieces of equipment????right? or mabe I should say the termenations.A buffer ,a sander and a hood over the saw (and what maybe a souldering or welding table .I do see your drill prees on that point ,If you hang a toe kick box that i talked about (last night) with flex duct ,behind the sander so you could take it lose drop it to the floor you could sweep all the fileings from the drill press or just sweepings into it like a vacume.Anyway (got off on a tangent) your trerminations will probably be O>K> at 4".I'll check in tommorrow night and see if you copied this RANT...hogdog...P.S I'm tiered so forgive grammer and the spelling,besides if I knew how to spell better I probably wouldn't know as much about sheetmetal.....
 
HI Padrig....You know I'm looking at your shop and the location of the fan.Is the unit exiting an outside wall right there? If it is a few knives down the road there looks like room for two systems.One for the buffer one for everything else.What do you have for a collector on the discharge end of the system?As I kinda recapped what I told you in the first thead "I DON'T THINK I PUTT ENOUGH EMPHESIS ON THE FIRE HAZARD THAT LINT IS" . Now with that being said it just means you need to clean any build up and remove from the collection point on a regular basis.when you get your system up and running keep an eye on it and yuo should get an idea...every2,3,4hours of buffing ,or1,2,3 knives the lint will always build on the flex.What the danger is ,is you work for awhile everything seems right an you shut down and lint some where is smoldering,so if you can pull the duct apart easily and give a quick check..then check the collector......I wanted to make real clear LINT IS VERY FLAMABLE. Now I'll sleep better! PADRIG when you get an idea of the duct sizes available to you drop me an E-mail at Hawgdog1@sbcglobal.net I,ll tune you in ...Or if you have ????about making conections ,or methods....talk at you later...Michael
 
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help and show what my system ended up looking like. A couple of tweaks left but overall, it is working great.

dust_collector1.jpg


Thanks for looking.

Pad
 
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