question about hardox/weldox (yes i searched first)

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gotmike

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on a search i got 3 hits and none of them really answered my questions... basically "i found a piece of xxxx and will it work" but i have access to xxxx, yyyy, and zzzz versions of hardox and weldox... so what am i looking for in a piece to bring home and experiment with... i can get small pieces for free very easily... i know this stuff doesn't have alot of carbon in it... but what's a good measure of carbon to have in knife steel... i've done a little reading on the differnet steels used commonly here but it's generally referred to as aaaa steel... and it's alot of info to wade through... not to mention that balanced with manganese and various other compounds/alloys a good amount of carbon in one steel may not be enough or too much in another alloy...

here's the breakdown of the hardox
http://www.hardox.com/en/About-Hardox/Tailor-Made/

and here's the weldox
http://www.ssab.com/en/Brands/Weldox/Products/

it looks like the highest grade of steel as far as carbon content is the weldox 700 which can be had in a .57%...

also... could i take a lower carbon content steel, then heat it and quench it in used motor oil a couple times to bring up the carbon content after annealing and grinding??? or quench it in motor oil, then heat treat it properly after that???

i know i'm still learning and buying steel is my best bet... but health issues lately haven't given me any play money for some time now... so something to keep me busy without costing me alot of money is ideal for now... i've got time and tools...
thanks guys...
 
gotmike said:
also... could i take a lower carbon content steel, then heat it and quench it in used motor oil a couple times to bring up the carbon content after annealing and grinding??? or quench it in motor oil, then heat treat it properly after that???

i know i'm still learning and buying steel is my best bet... but health issues lately haven't given me any play money for some time now... so something to keep me busy without costing me alot of money is ideal for now... i've got time and tools...
thanks guys...
Click to expand...

Nope, you can't increase the carbon content via that method or any other method. Also, quenching in motor oil is VERY less than ideal. I would suggest a little more reading on the processes involved in knife making. There are stickies at the top of the page that should be almost required reading.

I understand monetary constraints but the price of some 1084 from a well known steel supplier will FAR FAR outweigh using an unknown or un-useable steel. If you truly want to make a useable knife the sub $20 price tag for enough steel to make a few knives is more than worth it. In the big picture it will probably be one of the cheaper parts of the knife if you include some decent handle material, sand paper, heat treat, sheath, etc......

Good luck!
 
I did read several of the knifemaking tutorials stickied... they didn't necessarily speak of the motor oil method... It's something I've heard of elsewhere... We use it at work for hardening slag scrapers... I live in the middle of the least populated state in the us... Not sure if I can even buy the right type of steel without having it shipped in... So the obvious solution is to see if the steel I have access to is suitable... It's not something the average consumer can get ahold of so that doesn't mean its a bad steel its just maybe not the usual choice... That was what I was trying to find out... When someone starts posting numbers that I'm not familiar with then I don't understand them... Most of the posts just repeat the same numbers for different steels and they don't mean much to me... Might mean something to someone at a steel warehouse, but I still don't know what it is and that's where I'm at... starting with a steel I'm familiar with and going from there... It's a learning process... Steel a is better than steel b because of x but worse than steel d because of z... Everyone's got to start somewhere and I'm trying to understand the properties of the steel without going through an entire online class curriculum... what i'm trying to get to is comparison of sorts... i know the characteristics of the hardox and weldox we use... and of A514 which i believe is basic mild steel... so i'm trying to figure out if that's comparable to 1084 (whatever that actually is) or whatever other knife steel is out there... i'm probably overthinking it... i usually do... but when i get a good hold on it i can run with it to almost no end and continue to learn more and more... my favorite quote is "to learn everything you must accept that you know nothing" thanks for at least taking the time to answer with something though... and i have supplies... lots of sandpaper from old jobs, grinding/cutoff wheels.... i can take the steel into work and anneal it or heat treat it... i even have access to liquid nitrogen if need be... but this type of stuff wasn't taught in basic welding classes... or in real life situations in any of the welding shops i've worked in... was always better at hands on learning than reading something in a book... or online for that matter... thanks again...
 
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okay... so i was hoping to get a grasp on some of this stuff by comparing it to something i know... but i finally just broke down and started wading through the endless pages of steel info... not sure how well i really understand most of it but it's something to start with... so if a mod want's to just delete this thread that'll be fine... i'd do it myself but it won't let me...
 
There have been a lot of blades made out 1050 steel which lends itself to water quenching and clay coated temperlines.
Your Hardox is not that different in alloying.
 
I won't delete it , but I'll close it for you.

But first a few words of advice.

About half the new makers who come here have a great idea how they can re-invent knifemaking. They have a new steel, or a new technique to add carbon, or a new way to shape a knife, etc. Take it from someone who has read all those metallurgical tables and charts....it almost always won't work. Don't think that we look down on these folks,...... not at all....we were there once ourselves.

The steels that work, and the methods that make knives are pretty well established. Metallurgy is pretty darn good these days, and can be relied on. What is usually unreliable is info that you read or heard "somewhere". Info you read on Bladeforums, and especially in Shop Talk, is pretty well vetted by the folks here. Some wild thoughts get proposed, but most of the threads are on tried and true procedures....and collectively we have thousands of good knives to back that info up. Some of the best makers in the world hang out here, and freely share their knowledge and techniques.

The other very common thing is the statement, " I live in a remote area....." There may be a good maker two miles away. Knifemakers generally don't hang out a sign. As far as Wyoming goes, there are several good makers there.

The steel types that we make knives out of has from .60 to 1.00% carbon. It has a little manganese, often some chromium, and not a lot else. 1084 is a simple carbon steel with .84% carbon, and a tad of manganese to make it harden right. That is pretty much all you need to make a good knife.
Aldo sells the steel that a lot of us use. At the last check, UPS and USPS still deliver to all parts of Wyoming. Most orders are at your door in a couple days. His steel is very affordable, completely compatible with knifemaking, and comes ready to work ( annealed). Shipping is really low from Aldo,too. http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/

The sticky, "How to Instructions for Making a Knife" will cover 99% of most questions.
Read up on knifemaking and those dull and boring stickies on metallurgy. Some of the info will help you in your welding job. Use a known steel of an alloy that is compatible with knifemaking. When you have more experience, you can bend the limits and use some odds and ends from leftovers at work ( because by then you will know more about what works and what doesn't). Start with a simple drop point hunter and make that. Then make a few more. As your skills progress, your knowledge and confidence will,too.

Here is the search engine to use to look up anything in Bladeforums: http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Good luck, and feel free to post questions and sketches here in Shop Talk.
 
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