Question about Master Hunter Durability

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IaccidentlyCutmyThumb

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Hello all,

I remember seeing a thread on here (I think it was here) about a Master Hunter being used for bushcraft/survival tasks like batoning and the thing chipped out. People said the knife wasn't made for tasks like that, and it was the user's fault. That never made sense to me. It's a 3/16 3V knife...how in the world is it not made for durability? FFG isn't a weak cut...is it the heat treat?
Or is the knife actually made for whatever you want (like most 3V) and it was just weirdos saying you shouldn't use it to baton and smash stuff? If I had a 3V knife, I wouldn't hesitate to, say, treat it worse than a 1075 Condor...and I've done nasty things to that steel.

Thanks for your input. I've been contemplating the Benchmade Puukko/Leuku or Master Hunter for some time now, for what I consider rougher than average, but perhaps infrequent, use.
 
I have one. an Italian made one in 3v stone washed. I haven't put it through batoning tasks. im an axe, hatchet or Bucks froe user for those type of tasks. plus its kinda smallish for that but I guess smaller branches, it should do fine through. trying batoning through a bigger log id think is a stupid idear, but thats me.

to me its a good general use, hunter or camping type tasks use type knife.
 
jbmonkey said:
I have one. an Italian made one in 3v stone washed. I haven't put it through batoning tasks. im an axe, hatchet or Bucks froe user for those type of tasks. plus its kinda smallish for that but I guess smaller branches, it should do fine through. trying batoning through a bigger log id think is a stupid idear, but thats me.

to me its a good general use, hunter or camping type tasks use type knife.
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Do you not think that the 3V would lend itself to harder tasks?
 
3v can be tough but for batoning grind is important, you want a saber grind and convex edge. Per the CS website for the master hunter

" it features a broad blade that's been flat ground to achieve the ideal blade cross-section and edge geometry for hunting application. Carefully honed to razor sharpness, its edge cuts effortlessly while its dropped point simplifies the chore of field dressing and skinning.The spine of the blade is a full 3/16" thick to allow for the necessary strength and stiffness to field dress and skin the biggest animals."
 
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So the way I see it: The SRK is 3/16 and sabre ground. It is correspondingly thick behind the edge and built to be a tough knife.

The Master Hunter is 3/16 and full flat grind. It is correspondingly thin behind the edge and built to be a hunting knife.

I've used an SRK to field dress game because I didn't have another knife on me. If I were in the woods and desperately needed to split a piece of wood and couldn't make a wedge, crack it from the side, or find a smaller piece, and all I had was a Master Hunter, I'd baton with it. Given my druthers however I'd never baton with a Master Hunter, and would prefer to have thinner knives than an SRK for field dressing.

Most knives are striving to hit a niche, and "Bushcraft" is not the niche forte of the "Master Hunter" IMO.
 
NapalmCheese said:
So the way I see it: The SRK is 3/16 and sabre ground. It is correspondingly thick behind the edge and built to be a tough knife.

The Master Hunter is 3/16 and full flat grind. It is correspondingly thin behind the edge and built to be a hunting knife.

I've used an SRK to field dress game because I didn't have another knife on me. If I were in the woods and desperately needed to split a piece of wood and couldn't make a wedge, crack it from the side, or find a smaller piece, and all I had was a Master Hunter, I'd baton with it. Given my druthers however I'd never baton with a Master Hunter, and would prefer to have thinner knives than an SRK for field dressing.

Most knives are striving to hit a niche, and "Bushcraft" is not the niche forte of the "Master Hunter" IMO.
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I appreciate your input, and as a novice I have a few questions. Why isn't FFG suited to survival tasks? I know there's less meat behind the edge than a convex or sabre grind, but there are many FFGs out there that are quite tough, and in less tough steels than 3V. Such as Esees and BK-16s. I was in the deep backwoods of the rockies a lot last summer, and at one site I found an old log. I was so tired I didn't want to walk, but bored enough to waste energy so I stuck my BK into the log and pried the entire 6 inch log apart over the course of an hour or two. No damage. Shouldn't a knife in 3V be able to whoop 1095 in that sort of thing?

I also have a Condor Hudson's Bay that's a 3/16 FFG and I have done truly horrible things with that knife. I camped at a site where we couldn't use axes (nutjob owner) and used this in lieu. I won't go into detail, but I have much more expensive knives and this one currently sits as my favorite.

I'm currently ordering a Drop Forged Survivalist and that's FFG. Should I not pry and do all sorts of dumb stuff with that knife because of the grind? 52100 is tough stuff, but not even close to 3V, and it looks like it has similar geometry in terms of blade profile (albeit longer and thicker).

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I don't understand why I'm wrong but I'd like to. Is the taper to the point really thin? I also agree that an SRK would be a better survival hard use knife.
 
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IaccidentlyCutmyThumb said:
Do you not think that the 3V would lend itself to harder tasks?
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in the right knife sure. steel alone isn't going to be magic though. geometry is gonna matter far more.

would the 3v version do better than the San mai version for harder tasks. sure would think so comparing apples to apples.

if one wants a 3v for harder tasks there are better ones cold steel makes for those tasks.
 
Technique is important when prying , batoning , and even hard chopping .

Be aware of how much force and how it is applied and must be carried through the tool .

If you intend to do a lot of very abusive work , something like the Warcraft would be much better .

The 3V Master Hunter is thinner ground and more belly than the San Mai . Made for better slicing .

Used carefully and skillfully , I think could withstand some batoning , but not it's best use , IMO .







 
IaccidentlyCutmyThumb said:
Why isn't FFG suited to survival tasks?

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I don't understand why I'm wrong but I'd like to. Is the taper to the point really thin? I also agree that an SRK would be a better survival hard use knife.
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A FFG knife isn't better suited or ill suited for 'survival'. It's better suited or ill suited for certain cutting tasks. Because it is thinner behind the edge the edge is more fragile than something like a saber grind.

So, let's think about what sort of cutting tasks a knife called Master Hunter might be good at; cutting meat, cutting hide, cutting tendons; the sorts of things you do hunting. Doesn't it seem plausible that the geometry and heat treat might be focused on those tasks rather than on batoning wood?

Now let's think what sorts of cutting tasks a knife called the Survival Rescue knife might be called on. I'm guessing things like cutting cord to build shelter, prying punky wood open to find grubs, cutting strapping holding pallets of supplies open, prying open cockpits, cutting electrical wiring, breaking open nuts, and even batoning wood and cutting notches.

Now let's think about what sorts of cutting tasks a knife called on for bushcraft might be used for... From what I've read it seems to be batoning wood, cutting notches, and maybe making cord from plastic bottles.

All I'm getting at is that the Master Hunter was designed to be a hunting knife, which means I wouldn't be surprised if zero thoughts were given in regards to it's performance batoning wood. The Survival Rescue Knife was designed with survival and rescue in thought, and as such was probably designed with some amount of batoning in mind.

That the Master Hunter chipped its blade while batoning through wood neither surprises me nor makes me think ill of it. It was designed as a hunting knife, not a batoning knife. In those regards, a 3/16 thick FFG blade cuts meat well. A 3/16 saber grind cuts meat less well. A 3/16 saber grind blade does a pretty decent job splitting wood and doing other abusive tasks without taking a lot of edge damage if properly heat treated. I don't imagine a 3/16 FFG would fare as well given that it has less meat behind the edge.
 
The MH is a thin knife that also has a distal taper to the edge. It is designed with geometry specs for cutting.

It’s not that CPM-3V isn’t tough. It is. It’s just that the geometry of this particular knife is thin, and therefore more prone to breaking if used to baton.

Also, FFG can be a bit more prone to warping or breaking than something like a saber grind.
 
NapalmCheese said:
A FFG knife isn't better suited or ill suited for 'survival'. It's better suited or ill suited for certain cutting tasks. Because it is thinner behind the edge the edge is more fragile than something like a saber grind.
That the Master Hunter chipped its blade while batoning through wood neither surprises me nor makes me think ill of it. It was designed as a hunting knife, not a batoning knife. In those regards, a 3/16 thick FFG blade cuts meat well. A 3/16 saber grind cuts meat less well. A 3/16 saber grind blade does a pretty decent job splitting wood and doing other abusive tasks without taking a lot of edge damage if properly heat treated. I don't imagine a 3/16 FFG would fare as well given that it has less meat behind the edge.
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Fair enough. I guess if I want to abuse some FFG knives I should stick to Esees or something like that. It's just weird to me that competitors would make a FFG out of an inferior steel but they would hold up better to abuse. Probably has something to do with heat treat or edge thickness. The Master Hunter being in 3V seems like more of a waste now honestly, the San Mai would probably be better if just using on animals.
 
If you want to abuse a knife and also have the option of doing your own mods I highly recommend the CS GI tanto.

Stepping up if for some strange reason you are intent on using a knife to baton wood then the ultimate knife is this thing I only discovered last week called a hacking knife - you need to look in a hardware store to find it and not in a knife store.
 
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Wurger190 said:
Mate, you sound like the guy who would use a Range Rover as a sheep truck just because it also has 4x4 and a storage area.
Crack on.
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Sometimes you do what you gotta do. Backpacking for a few days at a time in the rockies is a major pastime of mine, and it can be hard to lug an axe around up there in addition to all the other gear. I also had like 40 lbs of gear which can get real heavy up there. Last time I went (Sept this year) all I brought was my BK-16 and I wanted more. Hence, a bigger knife. But while I'm buying a bigger knife I may as well look at some interesting, smaller options. I was actually just out there cutting down a Christmas tree, but thought about which knives could have beaver chewed it down (obviously I used an axe.) The Master Hunter came to mind, so I asked.

I've been in a couple situations that could have gotten hairy real quick had I not been close to my vehicle. Luckily, I was close. Getting rained out in the foothills or rockies so hard your flashlight won't show 4 feet in front of you and you're afraid your car will get washed away while you're in it seeking a dry spot makes you rethink a lot of gear. Is it tough enough? What else can I waterproof? What items can I bring to make this overall experience easier? Or, god forbid, if your pack axe ever came off on the hike in and you have to substitute it with your belt knife. Where I live the rockies are shockingly wet, and the forests are dense, like a rainforest. It will tug, and pull, and knock off your gear on the outside of your pack. Other items have to be able to step up accordingly. Stabbing my BK-16 into the stump over, and over again was to test if the semi-convex edge I put on it was going to hold up as much as it was about just stabbing for fun (ok, maybe it was more just stabbing for fun lol).

I know it sounds like I've been hard on the Master Hunter, but you guys have made me realize it probably wouldn't stand in for the tools I need in my area. I have bigger knives, I have a new one on the way, but I guess I'll stick with my current belt knives. Maybe I'll get one for deer skinning though. :)

Thanks again. And thanks for the suggestion about the hacking knife! Very neat and I'm surprised I never heard of it.
 
IaccidentlyCutmyThumb said:
Fair enough. I guess if I want to abuse some FFG knives I should stick to Esees or something like that. It's just weird to me that competitors would make a FFG out of an inferior steel but they would hold up better to abuse. Probably has something to do with heat treat or edge thickness. The Master Hunter being in 3V seems like more of a waste now honestly, the San Mai would probably be better if just using on animals.
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Few thoughts.. Some animal bones are very strong and 3V is a great choice of steel. It is a game processing and light camp knife. If you want a bushcraft knife Cold Steel makes those as well.. Esee knives break too, and all the time. They are also very expensive for what you get.
 
Chris_Texas said:
Few thoughts.. Some animal bones are very strong and 3V is a great choice of steel. It is a game processing and light camp knife. If you want a bushcraft knife Cold Steel makes those as well.. Esee knives break too, and all the time. They are also very expensive for what you get.
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All true. I guess at the end of the day to each his own. If they were the same price I'd probably grab the 3V one anyways.
 
IaccidentlyCutmyThumb said:
Sometimes you do what you gotta do. Backpacking for a few days at a time in the rockies is a major pastime of mine, and it can be hard to lug an axe around up there in addition to all the other gear. I also had like 40 lbs of gear which can get real heavy up there. Last time I went (Sept this year) all I brought was my BK-16 and I wanted more. Hence, a bigger knife. But while I'm buying a bigger knife I may as well look at some interesting, smaller options. I was actually just out there cutting down a Christmas tree, but thought about which knives could have beaver chewed it down (obviously I used an axe.) The Master Hunter came to mind, so I asked.

I've been in a couple situations that could have gotten hairy real quick had I not been close to my vehicle. Luckily, I was close. Getting rained out in the foothills or rockies so hard your flashlight won't show 4 feet in front of you and you're afraid your car will get washed away while you're in it seeking a dry spot makes you rethink a lot of gear. Is it tough enough? What else can I waterproof? What items can I bring to make this overall experience easier? Or, god forbid, if your pack axe ever came off on the hike in and you have to substitute it with your belt knife. Where I live the rockies are shockingly wet, and the forests are dense, like a rainforest. It will tug, and pull, and knock off your gear on the outside of your pack. Other items have to be able to step up accordingly. Stabbing my BK-16 into the stump over, and over again was to test if the semi-convex edge I put on it was going to hold up as much as it was about just stabbing for fun (ok, maybe it was more just stabbing for fun lol).

I know it sounds like I've been hard on the Master Hunter, but you guys have made me realize it probably wouldn't stand in for the tools I need in my area. I have bigger knives, I have a new one on the way, but I guess I'll stick with my current belt knives. Maybe I'll get one for deer skinning though. :)

Thanks again. And thanks for the suggestion about the hacking knife! Very neat and I'm surprised I never heard of it.
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The clarification makes it easier to understand what and why you are looking for. A Master Hunter certainly would not be my first choice with the tasks you lay out. As mentioned above, CS do make some appropriate knives for these hard use tasks, could be worthwhile checking out the SRK.
 
Wurger190 said:
The clarification makes it easier to understand what and why you are looking for. A Master Hunter certainly would not be my first choice with the tasks you lay out. As mentioned above, CS do make some appropriate knives for these hard use tasks, could be worthwhile checking out the SRK.
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Yup that's all true. It just sounds overdramatic when I say it out loud or type it out. Reality is that it's just a good idea to have multifunctional tools where I live. I find it's easier just to say the knife will be abused though lol. and I actually got offered a SRK in Carbon V recently, but I would have had to buy 2 other knives I didn't want. So I passed on it and ordered a Drop Forged Survivalist.
 
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I own a SanMai3-Master Hunter and though it is my favorite hunting knife that bothers me about it is it is too large and thick for some tasks, but that is probably why I generally carry several other knives in addition a Cold Steel Pendleton Mini (3V) And also a Benchmade Steep Country Hunter (S30V) and in my small Daypack in addition to wire ties to attack tags and Several pairs of Nitrile Gloves and a few folded Jumbo ZipLock bags(Useful for Heart & Liver) is where my (SK5) Recon Tanto lives, which is there to be "abused" if Necissary, it was only $37 on sale when I bought it new, so IF I'm going to be "Batoning" a knife better a $37 Knife than a $135 Knife!

And besides I usually have a Hatchet or Tomahawk, so Why The Hell would I baton any of my knives?
 
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