question on ar15/m4 barrel lengths

Midget

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So I understand federal law requires a >= 16" barrel otherwise it is a "short barreled rifle" and I have to pay an extra 200.00.


And I also understand that I can have a 14.5" barrel, with a permanently attached flash hider, which makes the weapon OAL 16" and therefore legal, non-SBR.




My question is, when I am searching online for rifles, like at olympic arms (olyarms.com) or bushmaster (bushmaster.com) or m16clinic.com or henderson defense.... the uppers they have are advertised as 16".



So does that mean they are 16" barrels with flash hider, or are they actually 17.5" long? Does that make sense? I'm confused.






Lastly, does anyone have a good recommendation for an AR15 upper (or whole rifle) that is 16" OAL (so 14.5" barrel + flash) that utilizes a gas piston system AND is optics ready? that is, no fixed iron sights.


thanks very much!
 
wow, lots of demands! i like :)
i would suggest hitting up a local gun store not only for answers but so u can hold different weapons.
i would also highly recommend a set of flip up BUIS. optics fail at just the wrong time!
bushmaster makes a "optics ready" weapon with a flat top ad rail fyi
good luck!
 
POF (Patriot Ordnance Factory) has a good selection of piston uppers, and I've read they have a 20,000 rounds fired test with no lube and only a few wipe downs of the piston and the rod. Complete rifles are also available

http://www.pof-usa.com/upper/upperreceiver.htm

LWRC makes good piston rifles but I'm not sure if they sell just the uppers or not. I would assume so but someone will come along shortly and correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.lwrifles.com/

Also Bushmaster and a couple of other companies make piston conversion kits. May be the way to go if your rifles is set up for optics already and you are just looking to go to a gas piston system.
 
Unless they specify a welded on flash suppressor they will be 16 inches plus the length of the flash suppressor. No one will sell a under 16 inch barrel with a screw on flash suppressor not matter the length of the suppressor as it is not consider permanent. Pinned is not considered permanent either. Of course BATF agents can try to sell you anything and tell you it is legal then bust you afterwords. If you want a SBR get the tax stamp first.
 
No one will sell a under 16 inch barrel with a screw on flash suppressor not matter the length of the suppressor as it is not consider permanent....

Kinda' mostly correct, and for our purposes here: 100%.

Reality is... you can indeed buy and own a barrel of less than 16" length, but you will be heading for felony land if you have "access, possession or control" of any AR15 lower receiver. You can fight that out in court, if you so wish. This same rule applies to many m16 parts or even something like a Glock stock. You can argue your case on this court of the internet, or you can simply avoid these sticky areas in real life.

The 16" barrel lengths supplied by every civilian grade manufacturer are actually 16.25". The ATF defines a permanently affixed flash hider (or whatever thing you hang off the front end, I'll just refer to it as a suppressor) as that it must be "blind pinned and soldered". This is generally taken to mean that a steel pin is inserted into a hole drilled through the suppressor and half way into the barrel right at the threaded area. A steel pin is shoved in and it is welded over (misnomered as soldered), ground smooth and finish (blind) is applied. It would take an x-ray to determine this and such delicate technology is usually applied by the ATF after they test your cool toy by trying to twist your barrel & suppressor apart using a 12" vise and a wrench the size of an oar. Whoopsie for you. Sorry about that.

The length of the barrel also takes into account the "barrel extension", this is the part of the barrel that most people view as the "chamber". For ATF purposes, it is permanent enough to be considered to be part of the barrel, at least on that big hole end~ that's where the tape measure is applied.

Many years ago, when the 11.5" barrels on M16's couldn't be made to function reliably, Uncle Green figured out that spinning a 5.5" flash suppressor (hollow tube) onto the end created enough vortex suction to make the weapon cycle on full auto. This begat the XM-177 carbine.

In the spirit of "function follows form", many buyers today specify this odd XM combination (with the flash suppressor permanently attached) for their AR15 application. There is no reason other than chicks will dig it. You have all the benefits of 11.5" of rifling and a 3/4" tube hanging out front making it 16" overall. A couple of steps past needing the m4 configuration over a basic CAR. Whatever.

Several civilian parts houses offer 14.5" barrels with permanently attached (per ATF) suppressors already installed, giving you an OAL of 16.25". They usually do this with an "a2 looking" flash suppressor that is made just a wee bit longer than milspec. Some other outfits will do the machine work and install whatever you want, depending upon the depth of your wallet. Or, you can DIY, but be careful of the UPS man handing you a package anywhere near (at the house, county or nation where you have access to) your ar15.

Ok, you have one all installed per ATF spec... The problem that arises is that most any barrel device such as a gas block is designed to fit over the .75" maximum diameter barrel, which you will now noticed has that larger diameter flash suppressor in front of it. All is not lost however- there are a number of gas blocks which are two piece, and assemble clam-shell fashion over the barrel- not needing to be slipped over the .75" muzzle.

Stick with the 16" unless you have the paper.
 
Mack nailed it not much more to add with the exception that the 14.5" barrel's have a cut out to hang a grenade launcher attachment where as the 16" barrels do as well just not in the right place to hang said attachment because of the added length (this is my understanding of it) There are a couple of things to consider with the barell length you are proposing 1) you will get inherently better ballistics/accuracy using a longer Barrell up to a certaint point. 2) being able to remove/change your flash hider/suppressor to put a silencer/suppressor on is a plus 3) the shorter over all length will improve handling but an inch and a half isn't much. 4) I don't think you are considering this but if you are please, please do not get the 10 1/2" barrel with the crazy long flash suppressor permantly attached you destroy a lot of your ballistic effectiveness/accuracy with no gain in manuverability over the 14.5".
As far as suggestions for upper or complete rifle I would highly suggest Lewis Machine and Tool (LMT) modular rail platform (MRP) piston upper's or the whole rifle. Definitely expensive but to build a compareable rifle you will spend just as much if not more for a rifle that most likely won't have as high quality build or quality componets. You are also able to swap barrel's/BCG to change your rifle to another caliber in about a minute. lastly the upper is machined from 1 solid billet of metal so your sightline is one solid rail from the back to front aiding in inherent accuracy not to mention your barrel is also a fre-floating setup all in all pretty slick rifle LWRC's pretty good as well I could go on and on about the LMT's so i am going to stop this novel but do yourself a favor check out their website then try to add up parts for a kit gun of simular quality I think you will be suprised how even though they are expensive you truely do get what you pay for
 
Regarding the M203 barrel cutout, you can get it in the correct location on a 16 inch barrel. Since nearly 100% of the people who buy them do not own a Destructive Device (M203), it's there for looks only since most manufacturers aren't concerned with the exact placement of the notch.

If you really want the shortest rifle possible without the SBR tax stamp, a 14.5 inch barrel with a Permanently installed flash hider will work. This won't work well if you want to mount different railed forearms since you must remove the PERMANENTLY installed flash hider.

I think people who can, should SBR their rifle if they want to own something under 16"/26". I like mine. ;)
 
And I forgot to mention, for bargain priced AR-15/M-16 uppers, it's hard to beat a factory LMT unit.
 
CMMG makes an optics ready piston AR, though I believe it is the standard 16" barrel.
 
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