Question on Sayoc Kali

D

Dave Fulton

Joined
Feb 11, 1999
Messages
568
I know we have some Sayoc Kali people here so I hope they can answer a question for me.

I was browsing the Sayoc web site recently and a question has been nagging me since. The Sayoc system advocates and teaches the carry of multiple (and not just 2 or 3) knives as well as how to throw knives as an integral part of self-defense/combat. Please note that I'm not questioning the validity of the Sayoc methodology, but I really would like to know how they reconcile the above with modern American society. Face it, ours (along with a lot of others) is not a "knife culture" and the general public looks upon knives with suspicion as a thug's weapon and with even more suspicion upon people who train to use them as weapons (even for self defence). It's tough enough to justify carrying one knife, let alone 5 or more. It's tough to justify cutting or stabbing someone, so I suspect it would be very difficult to justify having thrown one knife at your attacker (and hit him because you train to do just that) and then drawing a second knife so you could continue to defend yourself.

Again, I'm just curious how they would justify using such methods to the police or a jury. We live in a very litigious society after all.

Respectfully,

Dave
 
You may want to pose this question directly to Tuhon through e-mail at his web site.

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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html
 
Somethings to think about-
You don't have to throw or attack with only knives- there are a number of other "everyday" objects one can carry that have other uses. I don't carry as many "live" blades as I have on my training rig. But the training rig allows the instillation of many different presentation techniques.

Sean
 
SSHHH dont tell anybody!!atually sean is right for projectiles carry some stainless steel pens. parker makes good ones!they make good daggers also.Learn from some sayoc folk your whole attitude will change trust me!! peace!!
 
From what I know about the system it is a Family based system centered around the knife only. The number of knives is related to different areas a knife can be drawn from in relation to one's hand and the position of the opponent.

The knife throwing is part of the closing process to getinto the medio and corto ranges of fighting. The way it was explained to me is they use a series of blades int he fight and will stick one into a person draw another and use the one sticking into the person as a handle to manuever the opponent's body position.

Guro Inosanto advised the templates are based on specific anatomy. I would personally like to learn the system. My problem is I live in the midwest and don't have the funding to travel to the east.



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Call Me Al
 
Thanks for all the great info, but back to my original question.

My rational is: Trained MA's have more explaining to do (than "the average joe") if they kill/seriously-injure someone in self defense. As practicioners of blade arts, we'd have a tougher time (than average MA's) if we used our knives. Finally, I suspect that if a Sayoc fighter used the methods put forth on their web site, that they'd have an even tougher time than average FMA fighters.

Ultimately, alive IS better than dead, but we should keep in that we may have to defend our actions in court before it's all over. That in mind I would like to hear what some Sayoc people's thoughts are on this topic since their tactics would seem more likely to draw heat from the authorities. I would also welcome Tuhon Sayoc's comments if someone would forward my question to him.

This isn't meant as a slam on Sayoc Kali, so please don't take it as one. It's just a question that I feel is relevant given the screwed up state of our society and legal system where someone can attack you and then file criminal or civil charges against you if you hurt them.

Respectfully,

Dave
 
well let me put it this way, I aint gonna be nicey nicey to someone attacking me or my loved ones.dont give a rats ass what the law has to say I will do what I have to if the situation need be! I will do time to save myself or loved one, been there before not a biggie.again no insults given just my opinion.I dont know how anyone else feels nor do I care, sorry about that but just the way I am.
 
Again this me not other sayoc men I am sure tuhon will tell you to obey and use your head when it comes to the law but then again who knows!! LOL peace!hey you just dont have to have knives you know, it is amazing what a couple of stainless steel parker pens could do!!
 
I too would do anything necessary to protect my family and I will accept the consequences whatever they may be. However, I can't protect them if I'm not around. Being in jail, just as being dead, prevents me from protecting them. My kali training is geared towards surviving the physical encounter, but I feel compelled to address this issue as well.

Thank you for you thoughts.

Dave.
 
It seems that the subject of this thread is shifting from that of Sayoc Kali's use of projectile edged weapons to that of self defense doctrines and the resulting legal ramifications of actions based on these doctrines.
I think that its always a good idea to have a strong working knowledge of the law regarding deadly foce and the use of deadly force. This way I know where I stand when deciding on a doctrine.
If legally permissable deadly force is used in our society then it is virtually garaunteed that there will be a legal aftermath involving law enforcement officers and the court system close behind.


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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html
 
well i belive if it is me or him then hey of course i will have to face the piper!but if there is no one around who will tell not the dead guy.besides if someone was going to try to do harm to me for cash or whatever i think he or she will wait for a time for me to be alone, unless he or she is insane!dosnt matter who you are a kali man or a karate man with a knife protecting one self is his or hers right! it is all about choices just make the one that will save your ass!I might have to see jail time if I nutralize a dude and wont be able to protech them while i am there but i know for damn sure i did when i had to!!
 
Uhh...OK. Self preservation is a natural instinct. In the meantime as citizens who wish to defend ourselves in times of crisis it is our responsibilty to understand the legal definition of deadly force and the laws regarding the use of deadly force whether we choose to accept it or not.
I mean hey, we would probably all do what we had to do in an extreme situation but that does not exempt us from the law.
Awareness is critical in order to avoid possible legal issues. Also, just because one wants to act in accordance with the law does not mean that one would have to sacrifice themselves or loved ones in order to do so.

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Usual Suspect http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html

[This message has been edited by arkhamdrifter (edited 07-20-2000).]
 
Tis true but what are you supposed to do when a "bad guy" has you between a rock and a hard place say wait hold on,and break out my local penal code book and say well i can do this but oops couldnt do that to you sorry, oh wait I can do this ETC...
 
Dave, nice to see you here. Anyway...I recently had a discussion with someone about this, 'twas the art of fighting without fighting. I used to be scared because I carried a knife, and, it wasn't that I didn't want to use it, it was that I didn't want to go to prison. I didn't want to kill someone and have someone put me behind bars, because he feels that I shouldn't have used that much force against him. I see your point Dave, and yours too, Edge1. I think we will all do what it takes to protect our loved ones. I've been hearing alot of good things about Sayoc Kali. The style that I learned was originally taught to kill immediately, but it was taught to me not to hit the face. I was also taught not to stab unless life and death. Of couse, this is a strategy and not a style. I'm sure, of course Edge1 will have to confirm, that Sayoc Kali has strategies less than kill at every opportunity. I feel that it depends on the individual. Of course in a immediate threat of life and death the choice for myself would be to rush in and kill. However, in a less then that much of a threat, I would play the outside and rather discourage my opponent, perhaps cutting the arm/legs. From what I've been hearing of Sayoc Kali, I'd like to meet a practicioner someday and work out. Anyone coming to Hawaii, let me know.

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Chad
Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii
http://www.fullcontacthi.com
 
Edge1,
I really don't think that knowing and understanding the law will prevent one from doing what's necessary. I really do think that knowing and understanding the law will help to prevent one from doing what is not necessary.
Basically I think that avoiding the personal responsibility of knowing and understanding the law is a liability.

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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html
 
I know the law I understand it I am not going to pull a samurai chop the guy in half and take his arms and legs but i will do what needs to be done to put a end to the confrontation as much or as little as need be!If he has no knife nor do i I. If he has a knife so do I,If he has a bat or pipe I have a Knife.If he has a gun I will get him later!Belive me I am not one of these guys who feels the need to walk around with 20 blades on him so I wont look like some nutjob when question but i will have all i need!My head my skills and a darn sharp knife
ok ok maybe two!
peace
 
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