Question regarding laser or plasma cutting blades

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Apr 16, 2004
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Checking out blade steel @ Alpha and noticed they had a disclaimer stating their bars were not laser or plasma cut so as to reduce “hard edges or heat affected zones”. I’ve had a blade design cut with either/or laser or plasma using CPM154 and wondering what potential problems I might have doing this? Honestly, I had four CPM154 blades cut recently this way and noticed getting a shaving edge is about a 9 on a scale of 10 (if not impossible) in difficulty on the finished product. The blades are cut from bars, prior to grinding and heat treating & such. My friend that does this professionally also cuts thousands of blades for a major US knife manufacturer with no apparent issues. Just wondering if I have some “heat affected zones” , bad juju, or whatever. My blades I cut out on my metal cutting bandsaw myself turn out just fine...shaving sharp every time.

Just wondering if the knife makers Illuminati might have an opinion.
 
Well...I'm no knifemaker Illuminati, but the heat affected zone on any properly cut material should be very thin. The issues presented from using either is carbiding, nitriding, or plain old hardening. That should only amount to a razor thin layer along the cut, that should be easily removed by touching up the profile. If you are seeing heat tint beyond several thousandths of an inch along the cut, it could be dialed in a bit better.
 
JTknives JTknives could probably give you a really good answer to this as I believe he uses a Cnc plasma cutter for blade blanks. the short answer is I don’t think it’s a issue as TK mentioned above the “affected” zone is extremely small if done properly, if you use a hand plasma torch you will obviously have more haz to remove but a cnc properly dialed in is a completely different story. I’ve made close to 100 knives out of 8670 that I purchase from Pops Knife Supply that is laser cut to strips and have had 0 issues with the way their steel is processed, a sharp hack saw will cut through it and it’s only slightly harder to get started for the first second. Also I have had absolutely 0 issues with getting any of it to harden properly even if my pattern is close to the edge of the bar. If you clean up the profile with 120 grit it should remove any haz and fix the issue.
 
JT grinds off the heat affected zone (HAZ). IMO, this is the proper way to ensure the HAZ does not end up as part of the cutting edge.

We added the information to our website because we received multiple requests regarding how our steel is cut. When we asked why, the knifemakers said they’ve had problems with HAZ dulling bandsaw blades.

Chuck
 
Ok gotcha...probably not a problem. It had me wondering.... Especially if I grind through it profiling. Thanks folks.
 
I lasercut profiles often, the HAZ is a fraction of millimeter but its there and if you want to cut with a saw or drill a lasercut hole you will hear your tools scream.
For sawing a light pass on the grinder is all it takes, for holes I use a solid carbide drill to "ream" the hole to proper size.

Pablo
 
I lasercut profiles often, the HAZ is a fraction of millimeter but its there and if you want to cut with a saw or drill a lasercut hole you will hear your tools scream.

HAZ sucks but laser profiles are dialed in nice. Do you have any tips on chucking carbide up in a drill press?
 
I think there is two parts to what actual HAZ is. HAZ is just a heat affected zone so you have to consider what’s actually going on. The total area that experiences heat might be 1/8”-1/4” but that’s just heat. You will see some discoloring like tempering colors But that’s a non issue. What’s really important is the area that was actually in direct contact with the liquid steel. Plasma and laser do not require the steel to be preheated like a cutting torch so material heating is very limited. I don’t have any personal experience with laser cut blades Besides have blanks cut for knives years ago. But a plasma uses a jet of superheated air to vaporize the steel. This jet of plasma is anywhere from 60-90psi and coming out of a hole thats around .020-.050. So if steel is in contact with this jet it gets removed very quickly. There is a skin between the vaporized steel and the solid steel that will get hot enough To harden But it’s not very thick at all. But the thickness is not consistent from top to bottom. It starts at just about zero thickness at the top of the cut and gets slightly thicker as it gets twords the cut exit on the back side of the sheet. Then right at the exit edge it jumps out in thickness. This is from the slag on the back side that sticks and heats that bottom edge. In knives this is a non issue as that area gets ground away when doing edge bevels.

Some alloys experience HAZ more then others. We cut a ton of AEBL and the HAZ is very shallow to the point of being completely removed once you clean up the plasma finish on a grinder. Where we actually see the most HAZ is on carbon steels like 15N20. This steel is just looking for a reason to harden. We find that knocking the slag off of 15n20 can take chips out of that trailing edge. But what’s interesting is you would think that plasma being over 20,000°C would really blow out the grain. I have done quite a bit of tests under the microscope and the grain is very fine in the HAZ area. But I have only been able to observe it visually in these carbon steels that harden easily. Funny thing is I can use my metal scissors (that I cut foil envelope open with) to cut plasma cut aebl with zero damage to the edge. The slag that sticks just does not get hot enough to transfer enough heat to the edge to harden it like it does on alloys like 15N20.

If anyone’s interested I can take some pictures next time I’m looking at some HAZ under the microscope. I really wish I had a dedicated camera for my microscope it would make this kind of thing much easier to share.
 
I think there is two parts to what actual HAZ is. HAZ is just a heat affected zone so you have to consider what’s actually going on. The total area that experiences heat might be 1/8”-1/4” but that’s just heat. You will see some discoloring like tempering colors But that’s a non issue. What’s really important is the area that was actually in direct contact with the liquid steel. Plasma and laser do not require the steel to be preheated like a cutting torch so material heating is very limited. I don’t have any personal experience with laser cut blades Besides have blanks cut for knives years ago. But a plasma uses a jet of superheated air to vaporize the steel. This jet of plasma is anywhere from 60-90psi and coming out of a hole thats around .020-.050. So if steel is in contact with this jet it gets removed very quickly. There is a skin between the vaporized steel and the solid steel that will get hot enough To harden But it’s not very thick at all. But the thickness is not consistent from top to bottom. It starts at just about zero thickness at the top of the cut and gets slightly thicker as it gets twords the cut exit on the back side of the sheet. Then right at the exit edge it jumps out in thickness. This is from the slag on the back side that sticks and heats that bottom edge. In knives this is a non issue as that area gets ground away when doing edge bevels.

Some alloys experience HAZ more then others. We cut a ton of AEBL and the HAZ is very shallow to the point of being completely removed once you clean up the plasma finish on a grinder. Where we actually see the most HAZ is on carbon steels like 15N20. This steel is just looking for a reason to harden. We find that knocking the slag off of 15n20 can take chips out of that trailing edge. But what’s interesting is you would think that plasma being over 20,000°C would really blow out the grain. I have done quite a bit of tests under the microscope and the grain is very fine in the HAZ area. But I have only been able to observe it visually in these carbon steels that harden easily. Funny thing is I can use my metal scissors (that I cut foil envelope open with) to cut plasma cut aebl with zero damage to the edge. The slag that sticks just does not get hot enough to transfer enough heat to the edge to harden it like it does on alloys like 15N20.

If anyone’s interested I can take some pictures next time I’m looking at some HAZ under the microscope. I really wish I had a dedicated camera for my microscope it would make this kind of thing much easier to share.

Perhaps the grain of the HAZ is fine because the time at temperature is so short.
 
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