R&R Cutlery or RR Cutlery or Eman Cutlery...

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S.Alexander

S.Alexander

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Intro:

This post is not meant to promote any personal attacks. Nor is is meant to continue a thread that has been locked by the mods. I put this together as an informational guide to help people who may be interested in buying from RR-Cutlery (as the name is spelled on BF).

R&R Cutlery joined BF in October 2013, and claims to be a maker of hand forged damascus blades. There was another feedback forum posting that questioned the "maker" of these knives about where the knives were made, and who made them. The person posting as RR-Cutlery responded, in short, that he is a knife maker, his father and brother are also knife makers, and that they help him fulfil large orders that they receive.

The person posting for RR-Cutlery also claimed that he is the person who makes the knives that are posted here on bladeforums. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1115070-R-amp-R-Cutlery

The owner of this company claims to be R. Lucky, as per the BF post above. A further google search of r.r.cutlery@gmail.com, returns a result of http://www.camospace.com/rrcutlery/page_1/page_2/ where the Rashid Lucky is the subject of the page.

Websites associated to R&R Cutlery:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/RR-Cutlery/142873415807057
Facebook page with numerous pictures of damascus knives. Some of the knives posted here are also for sale on BF.

For example the knives here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...31721702.33110.142873415807057&type=1&theater
and the BF post for the same knives: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Damascus-Skinners-Perfect-Gift-For-Christmas

Interestingly enough I discovered another "knife maker" who is also selling this same batch of knives. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...888.1073741828.436067786490434&type=1&theater

If you go to Eman Cutlery's website you will find the exact same wording as in the R&R cutlery website. So I'm guessing that they are being run by the same group of people.

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=108786444&authType=name&authToken=rQ1X&goback=


http://pk1007776901.fm.alibaba.com/product/143817412-0/Handmade_Damascus_Knife.html
On Alibaba website R&R Cutlery says they have the ability to make 100 of the knives posted in a month. That is impossible for a maker to do on his own, or to do with only his father and brother. This sounds more like an assembly line job. It also states that the owner's name is Rashid Mughal.

I don't know of any other custom knife maker on this site that has the capacity or volume to sell on Alibaba.


http://pk1007776901.fm.alibaba.com/
Lists 5-10 employees that work for R&R Cutlery

http://rrcutlery.webs.com/aboutus.htm
Claims $75000 in sales in one year. Lets break that number down.

I looked at this company's webstore, and took an average price from the first 20 products that they had listed for sale. I came up with an average price per unit of $135.

75000 / 135 = 555.5 knives sold in one year. That does not taker into account discount and wholesale prices, so I'm sure the actual number of knives sold is much higher than my calculation.

Again, that is impossible for a person and his 2 family members to complete in a year.

Sales on BF:

From October 5 2013, until today's date (November 28 2013), RR-Cutlery has offered 53 unique knives for sale on BF. This is nearly one knife every day on average. This is not indicative of an individual knife maker selling his wares. It is more indicative of a company selling knives made in bulk.

Conclusion:

It appears that the the knives made by RR-Cutlery are not hand made by him. Based on the volume of sales, and the number of knives he claims to be able to sell in bulk, the knives are made in an assembly line or factory of some kind.

The owner of RR-Cutlery has not been forthcoming with information. He has been misleading about his name, the number of employees that work for him, and the fact that he can "hand make" all of the knives that he posts.

I believe that RR-Cutlery should come clean about who he is, and what his involvement in the business is. I do not think he should be posting his wares in the knife maker's forum, as he is clearly a wholesaler of knives. Because he is able to sell knives from a wholesaler's price point, he is undercutting the actual knife makers in this forum. If he wants to sell his knives here, he should be selling as a dealer, and not a knife maker.

Thanks for your time.
 
shane_o_ca said:
I do not think he should be posting his wares in the knife maker's forum, as he is clearly a wholesaler of knives. Because he is able to sell knives from a wholesaler's price point, he is undercutting the actual knife makers in this forum. If he wants to sell his knives here, he should be selling as a dealer, and not a knife maker.

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you have said and you have clearly put a lot of effort into this post.

Where we disagree is the bold portion of your post. RR Cutlery will never undercut or bring down the market value of custom makers knives. The people of BF are educated, and they can tell the difference between the levels of quality. This is evident in the fact that he has posted over 50 knives, and possibly sold one?

Whether he falls into a dealer or not is hard for me to say. Many knife makers have apprentices or helpers all the time. In my opinion, they probably do not have CNC at his shop in Pakistan, so the knives are being made by hand, but the quality is very doubtful. Like the fact that he uses pins for pivots in his folders, and brass liners for the locks. Those are a dead give away of the corners he is willing to cut to turn out a massive amount of knives.

R&R will never prosper on this site, or any site that is filled with educated knife enthusiasts. The only places he will sell any real volume are places like reddit or facebook where there are an abundance of unsuspecting customers.
 
Well, thank you for your post. Again, as said prior; you put quite a bit of effort in it. I myself have thought about much of what is noted and considered posting about this seller. Thanks for getting it out there and I guess we will see where it goes.
 
Well researched post. I think many of us could recognize this about R&R Cutlery based simply on the photos and descriptions of his wares. They are near identical to descriptions of common "Damascus" knives sold from Pakistan on ebay and other auction sites.

If he wants to say he makes them by hand, that is fine, maybe he does have a hand in it - but the price each piece is worth is likely in the $20-$40 range (or less) regardless of how much higher he prices them. All he has to do is sell a few from this site to reap profits.

I am not knocking him, some of the knives look quite attractive, if not to my particular taste. And as long as he is honest in delivering goods that are paid for, then he is OK with me in that regard. I have always been curious about Damascus knives from these cheapy Pakistani makers since they often look quite nice in photos. I am just wary of what quality of steel is REALLY used, and the fit and finish that you cannot see in the pics. Perhaps send out a few examples of his work to well known users here for an honest and detailed review and usage test?

Also, he should improve English typing skills if he wishes to be taken more seriously from educated knife buyers on the forum here.
 
I too have question about R and R cutlery. They have been members here for a couple of months, yet he has only 1 feedback. have been tempted a couple of times but have always backed away. As for taking sales from members here I don't think so.
 
I am sure many others noticed something fishy about the for sale posts on here as well. That type of damascus does not appeal to me but if it did I would only pay a few dollars for each blade.
 
I too was suspicious of his sales and title of knife-maker. Your post (shane_o_ca) is well written and sums up most everyone's suspicions very well, and with clear evidence. Regardless, I still believe always giving someone the benefit of the doubt. And regarding the benefit of the doubt--assuming that he does hand make all of his knives and they are tools of quality. jeffsenpai's and many others before him have expressed curiosity as to what steel makers such as R&R cutlery use. R&R cutlery has claimed for his damascus knives to be made from 15n20 and 1095 while his non damascus knives to be made of "corbon" (I assume he means carbon) steel. While we can't verify such claims, such can be proved through testing (more on that later). I do already believe that his knives, whether by him or not, are hand-made; however, many individuals such as myself express concern about quality.

The word Pakistan and knives don't go hand in hand here in this forum and the reputation for Pakistanian knives, lets just say--is less than stellar. Should R&R cutlery even provide quality pictures and videos addressing these concerns, many board members will be less than ready to accept it. As jeffsenpai has recommended, perhaps sending a knife to a more reputable member of this board, someone whom's opinion is unbiased and trusted would be a good idea.

That aside, with the given information from the intro topic R&R cutlery appears just to be a dealer of Pakistan made knives and in which case, may not do so well in this forum. Even if he can prove otherwise, I'm not sure if this forum is right for him....
 
Perhaps the knives are handmade by a group of people. It seems likely given the tools that are displayed on the company's website. But he is definitely selling in the wrong category, and appears to be making false claims as to the maker of the knives.
 
I dont know how he is getting away with not having a dealer account personally. It is obvious from his own site and looking at his other site plus the information you posted that he/she is a dealer.
 
I agree with Quint! He should have a dealer account and not be allowed to sell in the knife maker area. He has already been busted selling a tomahawk on here for 500$ and the same one was found on eBay for 50$. It's an insult to all of us.
 
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I saw a hawk that he had posted the other day at 699 I believe. One poster pretty much called him out by posting a picture of virtually the same one for sale on eBay from Pakistan. IMHO he needs to be charged for a dealer membership as there is no way he is making all these items.
 
Grayzer86 said:
I saw a hawk that he had posted the other day at 699 I believe. One poster pretty much called him out by posting a picture of virtually the same one for sale on eBay from Pakistan. IMHO he needs to be charged for a dealer membership as there is no way he is making all these items.
Click to expand...

Rediculous! I agree 100%
 
quint said:
I dont know how he is getting away with not having a dealer account personally. It is obvious from his own site and looking at his other site plus the information you posted that he/she is a dealer.
Click to expand...

I think to be a dealer he'd have to actually be making sales :D :p

Pithy quips aside, this is great detective work, and if I didn't think he was suspicious before, I sure do now. Too bad for him buyers here know quality knives
 
As a knife buyer/collector, I see gut hooks/filework and damascus steel like this and I suspect it's pakistani made. I just steer clear of RR's posts. If I were a legit maker (like Mason) I would be a bit more upset. These mass produced pieces should not be sold in the same section as the fine blades produced by the well known craftsmen that typically sell here. It cheapens the knifemakers section, and opens the window to other "makers" who are really production companies.

I'm going to stick to buying from makers who are honest and straight forward about their work.

RR's dealings seem shady to say the least. Just my opinion though.
 
I would have to say that his sales levels are reflective of the knowledge of the folks that frequent the Makers forum. He/she is just too secretive when asked any questions to ever gain my trust. YMMV.
 
And Yes Wow Everybody Just Giving Their Idea . So First Thing Is That I Am R.Lucky And I Am Knife Maker . Second Thing Is EMAN CUTLERY Is My Brothers's Website Who Is Also A Knife Maker And Help Me To Sell My Knives . Third Thing Is There Are Not 20 Knives On My Webstore But Over 75.00 Knives . Forth Thing Is Yes I Can Make 1 Knife Everyday Easily Myself Bcz I Do Hard Work And Not Just Make One Knife And Then Rest A Few Days And That's Y I SOLD ALOT Of Knives . 5th Thing Is I Really Do $75000 Business In One Year Bcz I Make Nice Knives . 6th Thing Is I AmA Knife MAker And If A Man Get One Of My Knives And Says That He Want My Knives To Give Special Gifts In A Meeting Of Vip Peoples So Can I Say NO To Him ? If Someone Say Send Me 100s Knives Every Month I Would Like To Sell Ur Knives And Make Money So Can I Say Him NO ? Friends If Someone Want Or Don't Want Knife I Don't Mind But If U Really Want To Say That I Am Wrong Person Why Don't You Get A Knife From Me And See The Quality Urself And Then Decide ?
 
It appears that they are a family or small company operation from the looks of the pictures?

I guess they don't have any kind of working shop safety board in Pakistan? LOL. Sitting/kneeling on the floor without even an apron and breathing all of the grit and fumes without a mask looks out right torturous to me.

While it's possible to make very high quality knives with a few simple tools these look to be the level of swap meet 20-$50.00 knives to me?

One thing to keep in mind gentleman, is that the technology to make Wootz/Damascus steel originated in that part of the world so its very possible to get high quality Damascus steel from India/Pakistan. One would need to test some blades to see the quality of the steel etc.

No comment on his pricing practices.
 
Not to be a smart guy but it's LASER, as in Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Do you mean razor sharp? It makes a lot more sense.
 
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