radius master belt grinder

C

Chris Tooze

Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
21
hey all.

officially my first post.

was looking for information, or more to the point... peoples opinions on this grinder as an aid to knife, and sword production. im of an 'average' skill level i guess, and shortly plan on taking a trip to see michael bell at dragonfly for a course on blade forging cable steel, etc.

this would be my first real investment into serious production.

so what does everyone think?

(main website)
http://www.radiusmaster.com.au/beltgrinder.htm


(video demo)
http://www.jancy.com/media/radius ...ming WMV.asx

any info/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Chris.
 
Personally, I think you'd be way ahead getting a 2"X72" belt grinder with attachments like the type Rob Frink of Beaumont Metal Works makes.

A 2X72" will give you a better more long lasting selection of belts, often at lower prices.
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/

There are other types of 2X72" belt grinders used by knifemakers, but I believe the KMG1 the best quality and the most versatile. If you have a problem, a call to the factory gets answered by the owner himself, and the problem taken care of right away.

Edited to add: Welcome to Bladeforums! Enjoy!:D :thumbup:
 
should have said... the problem i have is that i live in the UK, and for some reason, belt grinders like this are as rare as rocking horse s**t. this is the only model ive found so far, and ive been looking for about 6 months.

if i were to import any machine from the US, it would cost me the item price, plus 17.5% tax, plus another 3% customs charge, and about £800 to ship it over. (about $1100) so it would be just TOO expensive.

this model is £1700 delivered to my door, with 20 belts of my choise, a stand (as seen in the video) and 3 custom contact wheels of my choise. so as much as i appreicate alternative idea's (and i do) i really just need opinions on this particular model..... unless you know of a UK distributer for the above.

any info/opinions greatly appreciated.
Chris.
 
The radius master is available from UK importers for about £1200
Jancy United Kingdom
Unit 30, New Hall Hey Business Park
Rawtenstall, Rossendale Lancs BB4 6HR, England U.K.

Telephone: (00 44) 1706.229490
Fax: (00 44) 1706.830496
 
thanks oldgus. i was told £1395 plus VAT. but i'll call the number in the morning and see about their prices. it may be that it costs quitea bit to ship to me. or that the price you have is subject to VAT.

thanks for the info.

anyone have an opinion on the grinder itself?
 
I agree that the 48" grinder is a bad choice. You will spend more on belts than you saved on the machine. There are fine 2 x 72 grinders out there at a good price with shipping options that are suitable. For instance, the Coote Grinder - well respected by those who own them. retails for $450 with a ten inch wheel and flat platen. It only weighs 35 pounds so you can ship it parcel post - for about $80US. That's $530 - plus 17.5% and 3% - makes it about $640US - under 340 GB pounds (cand find the key for L thingy).

Add just about any motor you want and voila! Get a 2 x 72. You won't be sorry you did.

Rob!
 
the problem i have with that i have no idea what motor i could use. id need something that can run continously for a while, and i wouldnt know where to start looking. all i can think of is to butcher a bench grinder, and use that, but i think that would be too underpowered.

ive found that finding parts in the UK to be quite a drama. if theres any idea's that come to mind, i can start to look into the possiblity of this... also, avalibility of 2x72 belts might be a problem. the closest i have come to finding is a 50mm by 1830mm, but that would take adjustment, im guessing. is this something easily done?

*edit*
just found this site for motors.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=010210214&r=2026&g=104
and
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/rangeguides.asp?t=47&g=104&r=2026

1.5, and 2hp motors for about £80, plus £20 for starters. gives me a grand total of under £500....
belt question still stands... is it possible to run a 50mm by 1830mm belt?

*edit 2*
using a unit converter ive found that 1830mm converts to 72.05inches. same question, but im assuiming this length is well within tolerances for the above grinder. info appreciated.
 
Yes, those belts will work just fine. Don't discount overseas suppliers though like www.trugrit.com . It is a global economy and they too will ship through the postal service very reasonably.

When you set up your motor, consider using step pulleys - and you will have multiple speed as well.

Rob!
 
thanks for the idea rob, theres pully systems on the website that has the motors, so i can setup everything for little money, and from the same supplier.

the motors run at 3000rpm, so it seems like ive got a lot of room to play. something that did bother me though, was that the radius master grinder had a selection of small contact wheels that i could see coming in very usefull. and its horizontal position made it very appealing for profiling certain types of shapes, etc.

what other options (for a 2nd peice of equiptment) would there be to have that sort of versatility?

would i require a radius master in addition to gain that functionality, with my coote being the main grinding tool?
 
Rob builda a hell of a machine. The machin that you are asking about has several problems. first the belt speed is too low for hogging steel. Of more importance is the clearance between the motor and the contact wheel. You are going to have a really hard time when the handle part of your knife blade is next to the motor. Blending the grind, and ricasso in going to be a real pita! I know it is going to be more expensive to get a proper grinder, but in the end it will be worth the effort. Burr king if I'm not mistaken, has European distributers. As does Bader. Rob Fink can hook you up. If you like rotating attachments( Ie. Quick Change) nothing beats the old Square wheel grinders. Mike
 
The coote has attachments for small wheel attachments as well as a disc attachment. No, it won't go horizontal. I don't think I've ever had the need for that.

Rob!
 
If you want to build a machine yourself, it's quite easy:

1.5HP TEFC electric motor:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-1-5-HP-Bald...0QQihZ013QQcategoryZ26226QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

10" contact wheel (80A durometer):

http://www.sunray-inc.com/store/standardwheel-drive.asp

Backstand Idler (you could also build your own if you know what you're doing):

http://www.sheffieldsupply.com/

-Just bolt it down onto a steady workbench:

grinder.jpg


You can get creative and mount the back stand idler vertically, build a platen and do some flat/ convex grinding too.

Belts:

www.supergrit.com

-Get some 36, 80, 120, 220, 320, 400 grit belts and you're good to go.

All these can be shipped separately, which should save you some money.

P.S. I'd start out with 1095 steel, it's easy to heat treat on your own. Stay away from stainless unless you know of a good heat treater in the UK that won't try to rip you off.

(Or if you don't want to build your own grinder, a Grizzly knife belt sander works well -if you're on a budget).
 
Go the the GRIT website, http://www.grit.dk click the english version and look at the GP-50 series machines. They cost around 700 Euro depending on options, complete and ready to run. The machines are very similiar to the Wilton Square Wheel and they are high quality, industrial machines made in Denmark. I have mine in continuous operation the last 8 years.

If you can't find a machine tools dealer in your area, contact GRIT directly or if all else fails, drop me an email and I cant put you in touch with a dealer here in Berlin who can sell you one.
 
see, i wasnt looking to get a single machine, then have to modify it to get what i wanted. the reason i was interested in the radius master is because of its small selection of contact wheels, mainly. that with the horizontal position would have made it perfect for profiling certain parts of the blades i want to make up. a very typical example of what im talking about is here...

its my first big knife design. (and this is a basic 'first draft' i know i have many kinks to work on, so please excuse it... im not one for computer graphics, i prefer the pencil approach)
owndesign6.jpg


(blank profile here... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/Glaive/blank.jpg )

so how would i grind in all these small 'indents' or 'notches' on a contact wheel as big as 10inches? vertical isnt an issue really, i can work around that, but i saw myself working the steel in this way...

untitled.jpg

(please forgive the shoddy 10 second diagram)

and the same type of setup for other such angles, and notches. i understand that the wear will be much higher on a 48" belt, and that the speed for the radius master is about 1500rpm, which is slower than people would hope for. but this is my starting point. although i personally hold my own skill in high regard, i know im just an amatuer, and as such need to give myself the best possible chance of doing what i want... using machines to give me what i want, rather than my own skill with hand tools.

so with the above in mind, how would you all advise me?

am i still looking at the wrong machine, or while its underpowered, and belt wear would be high, would it suit a beginer/amatuer who is looking for ease of use?
i fully intend on getting a coote now that its been shown to me as a main grinding tool, but im still wondering if the RM may make a versatile first tool to begin with. it gives me 5 wheel sizes off the bat, custom contact wheels, slack belt grinding capability, and a horizontal plane to work on. and this, for someone like me, may be worth the extra money.

im more than willing to forget this idea, if its not feasable, i just wanted to make sure that my first tool gave me the most options to expand my work from day 1. i dont mind compensating for downfalls in the time it takes to get a coote (maybe 6 months after the RM) and i can see that a 1.5hp machine with versatility, and a 3hp machine with a bigger belt, and better grind ability would make a lot of things possible for someone of my skill level.... so am i still barking up the wrong tree, here? (also, for the sake of info... belts are £5-£9 from radius master, cheaper belts are avalible im sure, but i havent found them yet. they range from p40 to p600 in grit sizes)

many, many thanks so far for your helpfull advice. its led me to places i hadn't even considered, and has given me a lot of future options, however i go forward. your continued support is much appreicated.

look forward to hearing from anyone.

Chris.
 
Well, the fact that most every professional and serious amatuer knifemaker use at least one grinder with a 50mm (2") belt should tell you something right there. :-)

There is no machine you will buy that you don't need to adapt to your job at hand. Knowing which tool you need and either making or buying it is a big part of knifemaking.

Professional machines like those offered by GRIT, Beuaumont Metal Works, Bader, Burr King, Löscher and others offer the reliability, options and service you will need if you are serious about making knives.

If you feel the other machine is the right one for you, then you should buy it.
 
well, taking a look at beaumont metal works, i can see that their selling a horizontal finishing grinder, with a 48inch belt, and a 1hp motor for about $1250 so theres obviously a demand for such things. and as such, a use for them which justifys (to me) the useability of the horizontal setting on the RM

i can also see that to have the same versitility as the RM, i would need a fully upgraded KMG, which would set me back about $1200+, plus a horizontal version costing $1250 and i would have to ship both to the UK. which im guessing would add an aditional $250 minimum. plus 22% VAT, and import tax. thats close to 3k, if not 4.
so for half that, i can get a machine that would be less suitable than the above setup, but still retain a high degree of useability in a first machine. leaving me to upgrade to a heavy coote grinder as a main tool at a later date.

i can see that as a general tool, the RM would suit me fine, until i can get myself the 2x72 machine with a higher output motor. (coote grinder, with a 3hp motor, pully driven).

so thanks everyone for your advice, and i will be investing in one of the above grinders after ive picked up a RM. hope i can offer some nice blades for scutiny in the future.

kind regards,
Chris.
 
Chris Tooze said:
should have said... the problem i have is that i live in the UK, and for some reason, belt grinders like this are as rare as rocking horse s**t. this is the only model ive found so far, and ive been looking for about 6 months.


Chris.
Click to expand...

Listing your location would have been a great help as I wouldn't have posted in that case. The UK has ridiculous laws pertaining to imports. I tried to send a belt grinder of mine, to a friend in Kent, and it was made impossible, both by the demands for "special" lumber for crating and the price of shipment as well as hidden charges and penalties.
I'd never send a knife there, of course. I won't ship them to Canada anymore either, but that's me. I just can't see adding to some customs agents collection, as has happened in the past.
 
yeah, hence why i didnt want to import. RM are the only people i know that have machines already in the UK. im looking into others, and hoping that my coote wont see any such problems.

thats the horrible thing about the uk, and this 'hobby' or type of buisness... theres not much readily avalible unless your willing to go to REALLY specialist places, or pay through the nose.

the only other option is to build your own... which as you could imagine, might be troublesome for someone who is just starting out, with minimal equiptment. if i were to live in the states, i wouldnt have to limit myself so much. items would be cheaper, additions to machines wouldnt bug me, as mail order is a simple thing, and other nicities concerning living in the same country as the grinders.

all this in mind, i still intend on shipping in a 2x72 in the future, for the simple reason that i have little other option.

thanks for the reply though.
 
If you buy a GRIT grinder (or any other machine from the EU) you have no import duty at all and no additional UK VAT either. The GRIT GP-50 is an excellent machine for knifemaking without any alterations. I've made 100's and 100's of knives on mine.
 
Didn't know you were going to make a knife with finger grooves.... I guess a 10" wheel wouldn't work.

In that case, I'd also go along with Kevin's recommendation -the Grit GP grinder looks a lot like the Wilton Square Wheel, the Colt 1911 of grinders! :thumbup:

That radiusmaster looks like it'll only be useful as a "portable" temporary grinder or horizontal finishing machine. Any decent grinder needs a 2" x 72" belt -otherwise you'll be wearing out belts pretty fast and you'll need to spend a fortune on belts.
 
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