Random Thought Thread

Nathan the Machinist said:
I think one of the problems with politics these days is that social media has allowed people to unwittingly put themselves into little echo chambers where their beliefs are reinforced by others with similar beliefs until people with different perspectives are just absolutely convinced that their point of view is the absolute right point of view and the other point of view, they, are wrong and are infringing upon everyone else's rights. People get so furious. It's gotten to the point where otherwise rational people can't even have meaningful conversations anymore, it just gets too ugly.
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It isn't just politics, it's everything.

That post you made many months ago, about why we need to consider why we think the way we do and how we arrived at our position, is an important one.

It's always a good idea to look at as much information from all sides as possible, and weigh that info before determining a position. Being open minded also means being willing to reassess a position or conclusion based on new information/data, and/or to consider different perspectives.

As for the CPK forum, I concur that it's a lot easier to keep the peace by avoiding topics like politics. Plenty of other places to discuss and debate those things.
 
bluemax_1 said:
It isn't just politics, it's everything.

That post you made many months ago, about why we need to consider why we think the way we do and how we arrived at our position, is an important one.

It's always a good idea to look at as much information from all sides as possible, and weigh that info before determining a position. Being open minded also means being willing to reassess a position or conclusion based on new information/data, and/or to consider different perspectives.

As for the CPK forum, I concur that it's a lot easier to keep the peace by avoiding topics like politics. Plenty of other places to discuss and debate those things.
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The problem is that some people can't talk about those things rationally like adults. That's the problem.
 
bluemax_1 said:
It isn't just politics, it's everything.

That post you made many months ago, about why we need to consider why we think the way we do and how we arrived at our position, is an important one.

It's always a good idea to look at as much information from all sides as possible, and weigh that info before determining a position. Being open minded also means being willing to reassess a position or conclusion based on new information/data, and/or to consider different perspectives.

As for the CPK forum, I concur that it's a lot easier to keep the peace by avoiding topics like politics. Plenty of other places to discuss and debate those things.
Click to expand...

I think it’s a lot more to do with the primitive aspect of the current “Us vs Them” cultural dichotomy.

I get the Brother vs Brother. Then brothers vs Dad. Family vs Family, Neighborhood vs Neighborhood, Country vs Country dynamic.

But it’s moved to the extreme for our standards. Not historical standards. Tribes used to settle these matters through outright extermination of one another not long ago.

For decades certain groups of people have seemed to believe themselves better or superior to the “other” without any valid premise but that has never been the case. I think your average human is capable of the same level of evil as any other and that groups of people are adopted to their environment. In all the places I’ve lived, several continents now the average person is the same no matter what. They want the same things. Secure food supplies, clean water, appropriate housing, wise-spread security, access to the economy, opportunities for their children and so on. There are still the exceptions as there always has been of course. But all in all.

In-groups and out-groups will always be a thing, I get that. We prove unable or unwilling to see ourselves in one another.

I’m not talking about racism or classism either. Just good old fashioned ignorance.

I was taught at the most basic level that generally speaking in most societies Conservatives value tradition and work to uphold traditional values.

Progressives are the ones that come up with the new ideas and push the envelope.

Conservatives fight against those ideas, and that’s good, they keep some of the bad ones out.

But some of the ideas are accepted, and become ideas that the Conservatives then fight to protect.

It’s possible a person can play both roles in their life.

No one said one side was a terrible Nazi etc.

The division, the constant attacks of one another. It’s like many in the west just follow leaders now, they follow a cult of personality.

They don’t discuss and argue policy or support individuals in one area but not in another. They go to get an opinion from someone they think is right.

Really, it reminds me of the study with the Monkeys in an enclosure with a hose and bananas on top of a ladder. Let me see if I remember it correctly.

Short version is scientists put monkeys in an enclosure with a ladder in it. They suspended bananas above the ladder. Whenever a monkey went to grab the bananas they sprayed the monkey with a hose. I think they sprayed other monkeys too.

The monkeys learned to not go up the ladder and eventually they all stopped.

Then the scientists replaced one monkey with a new one. That monkey saw the bananas but the other monkeys stopped him from going up the ladder.

This process continued till all the monkeys had been replaced, and no monkey in the enclosure had been sprayed, but no monkey went up the ladder.

A younger me noted this horizontal reinforcement and I still see it in the world all the time. I wondered, why didn’t the Monkeys all band together and figure out who has the hose. Then it could be bananas for all. One big happy monkey family getting along and sharing bananas.

An older more cynical me thinks that the monkeys did in fact figure out who had the hose. Instead of getting along in happy banana land, they now fight to see who gets to control the hose, the one ring or “the legitimate use of violence in a given geographic area.”
 
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JustinFournier said:
I think it’s a lot more to do with the primitive aspect of the current “Us vs Them” cultural dichotomy.

I get the Brother vs Brother. Then brothers vs Dad. Family vs Family, Neighborhood vs Neighborhood, Country vs Country dynamic.

But it’s moved to the extreme for our standards. Not historical standards. Tribes used to settle these matters through outright extermination of one another not long ago.

For decades certain groups of people have seemed to believe themselves better or superior to the “other” without any valid premise but that has never been the case. I think your average human is capable of the same level of evil as any other and that groups of people are adopted to their environment. In all the places I’ve lived, several continents now the average person is the same no matter what. They want the same things. Secure food supplies, clean water, appropriate housing, wise-spread security, access to the economy, opportunities for their children and so on. There are still the exceptions as their always has been of course. But all in all.

In-groups and out-groups will always be a thing, I get that. We prove unable or unwilling to see ourselves in one another.

I’m not talking about racism or classism either. Just good old fashioned ignorance.

I was taught at the most basic level that generally speaking in most societies Conservatives value tradition and work to uphold traditional values.

Progressives are the ones that come up with the new ideas and push the envelope.

Conservatives fight against those ideas, and that’s good, they keep some of the bad ones out.

But some of the ideas are accepted, and become ideas that the Conservatives then fight to protect.

It’s possible a person can play both roles in their life.

No one said one side was a terrible Nazi etc.

The division, the constant attacks of one another. It’s like many in the west just follow leaders now, they follow a cult of personality.

They don’t discuss and argue policy or support individuals in one area but not in another. They go to get an opinion from someone they think is right.

Really, it reminds me of the study with the Monkeys in an enclosure with a hose and bananas on top of a ladder. Let me see if I remember it correctly.

Short version is scientists put monkeys in an enclosure with a ladder in it. They suspended bananas above the ladder. Whenever a monkey went to grab the bananas they sprayed the monkey with a hose. I think they sprayed other monkeys too.

The monkeys learned to not go up the ladder and eventually they all stopped.

Then the scientists replaced one monkey with a new one. That monkey saw the bananas but the other monkeys stopped him from going up the ladder.

This process continued till all the monkeys had been replaced, and no monkey in the enclosure had been sprayed, but no monkey went up the ladder.

A younger me noted this horizontal reinforcement and I still see it in the world all the time. I wondered, why didn’t the Monkeys all band together and figure out who has the hose. Then it could be bananas for all. One big happy monkey family getting along and sharing bananas.

An older more cynical me thinks that the monkeys did in fact figure out who had the hose. Instead of getting along in happy banana land, they now fight to see who gets to control the hose, the one ring or “the legitimate use of violence in a given geographic area.”
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I liked this post and then unliked it so I could like it again.
 
000Robert said:
LOL! I'm a Christian, conservative, and a 2nd Amendment supporter. Trust me, I am not afraid of words...:D
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Something about your posts reminded me of this. Anyway, remembering this song made me laugh and figured I'd share. My random thought of the day: French Gun

 
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