Reate Knives 2015 Horizon High-end Series

Skywalker1 said:
I suppose the M390 adds alot to the price. It did on the Horizon-A too.
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Actually, it doesn't...

Compared to S35VN stock prices, the price increase should be pretty minimal.

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Skywalker1 said:
I suppose the M390 adds alot to the price. It did on the Horizon-A too.
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The horizon A sold on blade HQ for $249.99. And it has everything except the additional bearings and the patterned anodizing. So if anything they are asking a $150 premium for actually less than what you got before. The anodizing adds nothing. In fact I think it detracts as its a faux pattern. Now combine that with the fact the the horizon A had the integrated backspacer into each handle slab that made that knife have 50% more titanium waste than any model currently made. And the extra bearings on the new models amounts to $5 in additional bearings. So $150 more for a knife with a less intricate design that has less waste. If all of a sudden lamborghini said you know what we are going to scrap all this nice italian leather and the only thing you will get in a lambo is vinyl and instead of a one piece carbon fiber frame we are going to keep it carbon fiber but we are gonna cut costs by making it a three piece design. And then since we know customers love the look of external carbon parts but it adds to the cost and that CF needs to look perfect we are going to use carbon decals to make external parts look like carbon. Did I mention we are going to charge 40% more for it? I think many lambo enthusiasts might start looking at ferrari in a whole new light.
 
So most people are not happy because Reate is charging more money than they want to pay for a Chinese made knife? I don't own any Reate or Kizer, but just on materials alone, the these new high end series Horizons seems comparable to my ZT 0392. I'm not saying that it's OK to charge $400 for a framelock flipper with premium materials, but if people are willing to buy them, then that's what the manufacturers will charge. I don't think that the warranty concerns are really valid as most people complain regardless of whether the warranty is good or not. Many ZT threads come to mind. The only complaint left is "Why don't they manufacture enough of these so that everyone can get one?" I'm sure that complaint will come up if the 2nd market blows up with these Horizons.
 
Have to say, the price gives me pause for thought as well. I'd certainly buy a Horizon-C with a carbon fiber scale and M390 for $300. At $400, though, it becomes harder to justify. So unless retailers start selling these at less than the full price, I probably won't be getting one.
 
Jasonsdman said:
So most people are not happy because Reate is charging more money than they want to pay for a Chinese made knife? I don't own any Reate or Kizer, but just on materials alone, the these new high end series Horizons seems comparable to my ZT 0392. I'm not saying that it's OK to charge $400 for a framelock flipper with premium materials, but if people are willing to buy them, then that's what the manufacturers will charge. I don't think that the warranty concerns are really valid as most people complain regardless of whether the warranty is good or not. Many ZT threads come to mind. The only complaint left is "Why don't they manufacture enough of these so that everyone can get one?" I'm sure that complaint will come up if the 2nd market blows up with these Horizons.
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It's not really about the "Chinese made knife" thing to me.

But to your last point, these were intentionally limited in their numbers, presumably to justify, at least in part, the $400 price tag.
Your ZT comparison is pretty accurate. It's supposed to be a "limited run, special edition" type of thing.

I think a lot of the negativity of the last 24 hours has come from the fact that the details were kept all hush-hush and most of us were expecting something similar to their previous offerings. Aka - A reasonably priced titanium framelock folder using premium materials (M390, CF) and what we got was like, "Surprise! Special Edition Limited Run"

So I get how people are disappointed. Myself included. But I just gotta let it go, like I did with the black & bronze ZT 0392.
She's outa my league. Gotta accept it and move on :)
 
Yeah, I certainly hope David continues to produce the wallet friendly high quality knives that got him this cult following from the beginning. I mean there is nothing wrong with broadening your horizons(pun definitely intended) and producing some higher end stuff.
On a side note I really wish the newer knive didn't have the fuller/groove in the blade. It is the one thing I really don't like about the latest models.
And I also agree with the statements about a domestic warranty department. At $200 I'll risk it, but at $350 pluss I want to know I have a US location to send my knife in case I need repair.
 
Jasonsdman said:
So most people are not happy because Reate is charging more money than they want to pay for a Chinese made knife? I don't own any Reate or Kizer, but just on materials alone, the these new high end series Horizons seems comparable to my ZT 0392. I'm not saying that it's OK to charge $400 for a framelock flipper with premium materials, but if people are willing to buy them, then that's what the manufacturers will charge. I don't think that the warranty concerns are really valid as most people complain regardless of whether the warranty is good or not. Many ZT threads come to mind. The only complaint left is "Why don't they manufacture enough of these so that everyone can get one?" I'm sure that complaint will come up if the 2nd market blows up with these Horizons.
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the price wouldnt be a problem if it was realistic and inline with its other offerings that actually gave you just as much if not more for $150 less. Reate imho is jumping too fast into higher priced offerings. Especially when the only upgrade, if you even want to call it that is a fake timascus pattern. Otherwise they have took a knife, simplified it, and are charging 35-40% more. People didnt start buying reate knives just because they were decent knives. In fact they were met with a lot of skepticism. The only reason people even bit at first was because it seemed to good to be true and they were passed around and purchased to see if they lived up to the hype. Cost was a big part of that hype. Well apparently it is too good to be true. I didnt expect the prices to stay low forever. But i still say if they keep on their current trend it wont be long before they go the way of the dodo. And i cant say i agree that the warranty is a non issue. People complaining about domestic products will never go away. No matter the warranty. but i still want a warranty. Sure they claim to have one but its far from a simple or cheap option.
 
I think the comparison of the Horizon-D Ti ($400) with Horizon-A ($250) is quite fair. Both have M390, 3D titanium milling, solid titanium backspacer (Horizon-A's is integrated to one handle and on Horizon-D it's anodized but not a separate piece), anodized pivot, titanium clip (anodized Timascus in Horizon-D), bearings (multi-row in Horizon-D), etc. Both high-end and probably limited in the number produced. I just don't see $150 worth of extras in the price. Their possible production numbers may make the Horizon-D models more desirable but the same can be said of the limited number of Horizon-A produced. Either Horizon-A was way under-priced or Horizon-D is way overpriced or perhaps somewhere in the middle. I think a price of $300-$325 would have been the sweet spot for Horizon-D.

By the way, one could also argue about the price jump of Horizon-B at $200 to Horizon-C at $250 but that was a 25% increase whereas from Horizon-A to Horizon-D is a 60% price increase!

Anyway, I hope to see more new flippers from Reate in the $200-$250 price range.

Reate is not a high-volume producer and so far the quality has been excellent. Reate is now producing more and more knives for others like LionSteel does.
 
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Jasonsdman said:
So most people are not happy because Reate is charging more money than they want to pay for a Chinese made knife? I don't own any Reate or Kizer, but just on materials alone, the these new high end series Horizons seems comparable to my ZT 0392. I'm not saying that it's OK to charge $400 for a framelock flipper with premium materials, but if people are willing to buy them, then that's what the manufacturers will charge. I don't think that the warranty concerns are really valid as most people complain regardless of whether the warranty is good or not. Many ZT threads come to mind. The only complaint left is "Why don't they manufacture enough of these so that everyone can get one?" I'm sure that complaint will come up if the 2nd market blows up with these Horizons.
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You missed the point. It has nothing to do with Point of Origin, it's all about value. At this price point, these Reates are just another pretty face in the crowd. They're still a fine knife, there's just nothing that makes them special.

Don't go and play the Point of Origin card, I'm the OKFB (Original Kizer Fan Boy), but when evaluated against the other Reates I own, these knives are just "meh".
 
Why people keep comparing ZT with Reate ? Two different company Reate is copying what ZT does with limited and want to price them self the same way . We should ask ZT to take all there manufacturing to China then we will get limited knives for $250 not $400 and production knives for $150 . Reate knives are sweet looking and I don't own one and I'm sure there fit and finish is spot on with great materials but there prices are way off IMHO .
 
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Brous knives started off kind of reasonable, but they sure are not any more, now they are way overpriced. I hope Reate and other companies don't follow this bandwagon, if they do , I will not be buying...
 
Reate is playing in the high end production arena now. Their card is limited production numbers. Whether the price is too high or not is an opinion that anyone can have, but that it is sold out is a matter of fact. I was just trying to get that point across. My comparison with ZT was that they are using the same strategy. I have no stake in either company. Just saying that I would have picked up a Horizon D if I didn't already own a 0392.
 
Isnt $400 is just MSRP and we should see these for $350 and under (hopefully under).

I think that at $299-$329 this would be a great knife and price despite the fake timascus.

I currently own a Horizon B and the newest iteration of the District 9A. I think both of these knives are exceptional values, but also very high quality, regardless of price. The lack of a multirow bearing pivot or Titainium standoffs on the Horizon B really does not bother me, especially at $200.

I just don't see $50 dollars extra in the Horizon C over the B. It's the same price as the Horizon A. Now I do believe the Horizon A and B may have been priced with low margins to establish Reate as a premier knife company, which in my opinion it did. It could also be that the Horizon D is going to be produced in very limited quantaties maybe under 200 knives so that's why its priced the way it is, but I don't know.

All in all I like these Horizon D I especially like the CF version and how it is just a slab on Carbon fiber instead of a CF/TI scale. I would like to see another overbuilt knife like the district 10 as well.

Keep up the good work, Reate! Let's see more steels (CPM s90v/110v, M4, etc)
 
PURPLEDC said:
The horizon A sold on blade HQ for $249.99. And it has everything except the additional bearings and the patterned anodizing. So if anything they are asking a $150 premium for actually less than what you got before. The anodizing adds nothing. In fact I think it detracts as its a faux pattern. Now combine that with the fact the the horizon A had the integrated backspacer into each handle slab that made that knife have 50% more titanium waste than any model currently made. And the extra bearings on the new models amounts to $5 in additional bearings. So $150 more for a knife with a less intricate design that has less waste. If all of a sudden lamborghini said you know what we are going to scrap all this nice italian leather and the only thing you will get in a lambo is vinyl and instead of a one piece carbon fiber frame we are going to keep it carbon fiber but we are gonna cut costs by making it a three piece design. And then since we know customers love the look of external carbon parts but it adds to the cost and that CF needs to look perfect we are going to use carbon decals to make external parts look like carbon. Did I mention we are going to charge 40% more for it? I think many lambo enthusiasts might start looking at ferrari in a whole new light.
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Sorry, for some reason I was thinking the Horizon-A was 350$. But I guess I mixed it up with something else:eek:
 
Skywalker1 said:
Sorry, for some reason I was thinking the Horizon-A was 350$. But I guess I mixed it up with something else:eek:
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You're actually correct. Initially the Horizon A was $320 plus $30 shipping from China. Then David offered free shipping from China bringing the price to $320, which is when I bought mine. Then US dealers started selling them for $250-300. This all occured over a 6 month time frame.
 
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