How To Recognizing and removing wire edge?

B

Bo-dacious

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Aug 13, 2016
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Hey guys, I'm having a problem getting my knives sharp on the Worksharp Blade grinding attatchment. A lot of people think it's a wire edge problem.

First, is a burr and a wire edge the same thing?

When I look at the edge in the light the very apex of the edge kind of lights up. Is that a wire edge? If not, how do you recognize one?

Assuming it is, I want to try to remove it. I tried with a piece of wood, but that only made a minor difference. Someone suggested a felt burr removing block. Would that work?

Can you guys give me more options for burr removal?

Thanks for the help guys,

Bo
 
This micro-burr is considered a part of the apex, and stropped straight is your sharpest edge - use a clean linen strop or jeans. If not stropped, it tends to bend decreasing the edge sharpness.
If it is a straight razor or a knife for slicing flesh, many don't remove this micro-burr, just strop the blade before each use to align it with the edge apex.
Note that having removed the wire or foil burr, you will lose the extreme sharpness, as the edge becomes somewhat duller. Your knife won't be able to do all the sharp tricks like whittling a hair, but will hold the edge better.

How to remove the wire burr depends whether it is a conventional carbon steel, or hard alloy "supersteel".
In conventional carbon steels it is removed by edge-trailing stropping at a higher than the edge angle on a strop loaded with metal polish.
 
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wootzblade said:
stropped straight is your sharpest edge
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Hardly. It is a weak piece of foil like metal with no strength and will roll over the first time one tries to cut something, even a piece of fruit.
Cut the bur off using the proper bench stone.
What is the proper bench stone ?
and I ask :
What steel are you sharpening ?
PS: at the very least a DMT 8,000 stone will remove the bur.
 
It could be either a wire edge or burr. I call an even burr across the whole edge a wire edge. It could also be a not fully apexed edge. If it is a burr you should be able to feel it. On whichever side the burr is leaning. Also if it was a really really dull edge it is possible to have a burr and a not fully apexed edge at the same time. Usually don't see that on knives tho. Usually see that on abused axes.
 
Bo-dacious said:
Hey guys, I'm having a problem getting my knives sharp on the Worksharp Blade grinding attatchment. A lot of people think it's a wire edge problem.

First, is a burr and a wire edge the same thing?
Click to expand...
No, but that doesn't mean people will agree on the appropriate terminology. Generally, "burr" refers to the large-scale feature of working one side of the blade, while "wire-edge" refers to the sort of features formed by incompletely grinding through the apex, most often from coarse grits or edge trailing strokes.
Bo-dacious said:
When I look at the edge in the light the very apex of the edge kind of lights up. Is that a wire edge? If not, how do you recognize one?
Click to expand...
There are several reasons for seeing light at the edge - an apex isn't formed, a burr is present, the apex has micro-convexity....
Bo-dacious said:
Assuming it is, I want to try to remove it. I tried with a piece of wood, but that only made a minor difference. Someone suggested a felt burr removing block. Would that work?
Click to expand...
Not unless there is abrasive in the felt.
Bo-dacious said:
Can you guys give me more options for burr removal?
Click to expand...
Stropping is the easiest, in my opinion, but "cutting it off" at a higher angle with something like a DMT extra fine works quite well also.
Bo-dacious said:
Thanks for the help guys,

Bo
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Wootzblade: okay, but I've stropped on leather and fabric strops. Are linen or jeans that much better? So if I remove the burr it cuts paper better or worse? Because I've tried cutting paper before and after removing burr and neither does it very well.

Sonnydaze: IMPORTANT: In that case, am I sharpening on the wrong angle? Should I sharpen on a higher angle? On the machete I'm working on I put the edge on myself and am sharpening at the same angle..

Wowbagger: I'm sharpening different knives, but most of them are inferior practice knife steels.

Todds: what is an edge trailing stroke?
What is microconcexivity?

Thanks a lot for all the help guys!

Bo
 
You should be able to feel a burr with your thumb. It will form on the side of the edge that is opposite the stone.

As Sonny said, if you're seeing light on the edge, it's most likely because you didn't reach the apex of the edge while sharpening. However, you only get a burr when you reach the apex, except in some cases where you reach the apex on one side but not the other.

Todd's links will take you a long way.

I disagree that a burr, when straightened, is the best edge. It will be sharp, as Wootz said, but it will be weak, as Wow said.

Use a Sharpie to paint the edge to see if your stone is reaching the apex. A powerful loupe is your friend.

The way I like to remove a burr is with very short, very light edge-leading strokes on the side of the edge where the burr leans (the side where you can feel the burr with you thumb or a bit of felt). The burr will be cut off quickly, but if you continue with the stone, you'll raise another burr.

To train your thumb, sharpen a cheap, soft-steel knife on just one side. You can feel the burr as it gets larger. With practice, your thumb will find even a tiny burr.
 
Todds: thanks for the links. A bit confusing but I will be paying that site subsequent visits.

Twindog: I do get a burr on both sides though. Can I still not be hitting the apex if I get burrs? I was told that if you get burrs you're at the right angle. Or is there some other way I could change to make sure I hit the apex? As I asked before, should I try at a steeper angle to hit the apex or is that wrong?

I don't necessarily feel a burr. If I do it's extremely slight I'm not sure it's there. It could Just be a chip in my finger nail.
So do edge leading strokes on the last stone I use?

All: I tried stropping at a steeper angle and i definitely saw an improvement. It's slicing nicely, but sometimes it just tears and doesn't slice. Does this tell you all anything?

Thanks guys,

Bo
 
Bo-dacious said:
Sonnydaze: IMPORTANT: In that case, am I sharpening on the wrong angle? Should I sharpen on a higher angle?
Click to expand...

Use the black marker trick...Use a permanent marker to mark your entire edge. Then give it several light strokes with the stone. This will remove "some" of the black marker. It is quite easy to tell where the stone is contacting the edge in this way. If no black is being removed from the apex, then gradually increase your angle of sharpening until you see that all of the black is removed from the sharpened edge when you use a few light strokes. Magical method...not mine, but I surely do use it...
 
Sonnydaze: yeah I do do that with the work sharp. Tends to work but sometimes I find it doesnt. Maybe because I don't see it properly.

Bo
 
Bo-dacious said:
Sonnydaze: yeah I do do that with the work sharp. Tends to work but sometimes I find it doesnt. Maybe because I don't see it properly.

Bo
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are you using any type of magnification?
a loupe or magnifying lamp have worked well for me
 
You can use higher angle on stone to remove the burr and will get the sharpest edge this way.Many people do not fully apex the blade and thus do not get extreme sharpness.You can feel the burr with wour fingers.You can also strop on piece of bare leather,back of palm ,or wood to remove it.Theres plenty of videos on youtube that show it.Its easy ,practice is key.
 
L1ranger: I sometimes use a loup and a battery operated magnifying glass thing but I find then frustrating and I don't find they help me. Plus even if I know I'm dull and where I'm dull, it doesn't help me make the blade sharp.

Lonestar: I've tried every way of removing the burr except the high grit stone. Hopefully this one actually works.
Thanks guys,

Bo
 
If you want to know what a wire edge feels like, take a knife you don't care about and grind one side until you feel it. After that you'll know what to look for.
 
Bo-dacious said:
Hey guys, I'm having a problem getting my knives sharp on the Worksharp Blade grinding attatchment. A lot of people think it's a wire edge problem.

First, is a burr and a wire edge the same thing?

When I look at the edge in the light the very apex of the edge kind of lights up. Is that a wire edge? If not, how do you recognize one?

Assuming it is, I want to try to remove it. I tried with a piece of wood, but that only made a minor difference. Someone suggested a felt burr removing block. Would that work?

Can you guys give me more options for burr removal?

Thanks for the help guys,

Bo
Click to expand...

How are you defining getting your knives sharp? What makes you say they aren't getting sharp? Who and why do people think it is a wire edge problem?

I've known people who have zero knowledge of knife sharpening and edges to buy a Work Sharp and be quite happy from the first attempt. I routinely recommend the Work Sharp to non-knife folks who just want "sharp" kitchen knives. So they are very straight forward in the raw sense I guess you would say but obviously can have variation and again, depends on how you are defining sharp.

A wire edge is a burr. They are fundamentally the same thing. A wire edge would just be describing a burr that is balanced along the apex and runs the length of the blade. But it is a burr just the same. A burr is just a flimsy, sharp piece of metal left behind after a processing step. It can be from drilling, cutting, sharpening, etc.

Go slow and keep your knife straight as you use the Work Sharp and make sure your technique is right to start.
 
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