Recommend your favorite water stones

Joined
Oct 25, 2016
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125
Hello fellow edge crazy people.
Do you sharpen on whetstones? If yes, maybe you could help me.

Short story -
Please recommend me some good quality water stones - for both creating new edges and for a perfect mirror polish.

Long story -
A few years back i bought a 1000/6000 stone for about 20$.
Back then comparing the result to sandpaper i though it could be actually around 3000,thinking it was low quality.
It smelled of ceramic and needed to be soaked for about 5 minutes.

During those years, since this was my only stone and was too fine to re-create edges, i kept upgrading my home made edge pro instead until i created perfect mirror edges from nothing.
Since it was very time consuming and i have learnt a lot about sharpening during that time, i decided to give water stones a shot again.

I ordered a few cheap stones in 10-20$ price range thinking they would be just as "bad" as the previous one, which works OK, feels smooth enough, does not dry too quickly after it has been soaked long enough and it grinds metal quickly enough for a 1000#
Well i was wrong!
I bought 240, 600 and 2000/5000
They all just let the water fall through even after an hour of soaking.
They all feel rough and dont give a very good feedback.
Well the 5000 gritt is kind of acceptable, but still worse than the 1000 gritt of my previous stone.

That all would not be so bad given the price, but i only have half of my 240 stone left, after sharpening only five knives!
Do all coarse stones behave like that? Do they get used up this quickly? I hope not, as i looked up some high end stones which do not even need soaking and seem to work OK.

The 2000/5000 stone does not get too much use and seems to close the gap between 1000/6000 just allright, even if sharpening on it is not quite as enjoyable.


After this bad experience i decided to try stones on the other side of the quality spectrum. As i am too poor to buy more cheap stuff.
I will practice sharpening until the stones are gone (which wont take long) and then ill need a replacement.

I find water stones, even as bad as these much more enjoyable to sharpen with than creating a perfect edge on a jig.
The convexed grind plus the ability to affect the edge the entire time and make sure its ground with the same angle everywhere for any knife shape are the main reasons for me.(You know how the jigs always make one part of the edge wider than the rest)
Plus when i strop a knife which has been sharpened by hand the strop is much more effecrive than on a V edge, where it often dulls the knife even more. That makes for an easy revival of a dull edge - without setting up angles for an hour.



Would you please recommend me a good coarse stone that gives a good feedback and is capable of creating new bevels? (First thing google found was the naniwa SS 220 or naniwa 400)
I would also like to get some mirror polish stone recommendations (naniwa 12000?)
If you feel like mentioning some stones to replace the middle area, i do not mind at all as i might eventually upgrade all the stones or just buy the whole set.

That said the coarse stone gets the most use and so is the most important to me right now.

Price does not matter as long as it suits the quality, that does not mean i do not like bargains though!




Thank you for your help!


PS: I still did not get used to the new site and could not find any water stone thread. I hope you do not mind.

I also typed this entire thing on my phone just to accidetally press some button and have it all deleted and retyping it all over again to a text file on my pc!

Oh! And now as i logged in from my pc the first message i typed somehow reapeared there!..
I stayed with the last version :)
 
I didn't read your whole thing but short answer is: get a good quality waterstone if that's what you want. That could be a 1000 Naniwa professional or Shapton or a power select. There are others. The same for a 4000. Alternatively Shapton 500 + 2000 is often recommended here. The finish should be good enough for most needs.
 
I would recommend an extra coarse DMT plate instead of waterstones for that task. Coarse waterstones are great for wide bevels, Scandi, full convex. Everything else, coarse waterstones are not as nice to work with.

They tend to be slower and leave scratches above the shoulder, and as you noticed many will wear very rapidly.

I like to pick up at 800 grit or so after the DMT. On wide bevel tools I'll use one of these:
http://www.nordicskaters.com/produc...es/1605/zandstra-foss-elite-sharpening-stone/

Fast cutting and pretty cheap, works great soaked in water, both sides.
 
Agree with HeavyHanded. I use Shapton Pro water stones for my kitchen knives. They are splash-and-go, no soaking. I have a 320, but I don't use it much. I don't let my kitchen knives get to the point where they need a coarse stone. I usually start with the 1000 and go up from there as needed.

For situations where I need a coarse stone, I prefer either silicon carbide (Norton Crystolon) or aluminum oxide (Norton India) oil stones, or coarse diamond hones (Atoma 140 or DMT 325).

I don't claim any of these approaches are superior, but they work for me. I have not compared all possible water stones because I don't have the time, money, or interest to do so. For what I need to sharpen, what I have works.
 
View attachment 759487 I like to use the Shapton water stones on a homemade jig. The stones only need to be spritzed with a spray bottle. The knife edge is pointed at the center of the earth. Using 4 stones, 220, 500, 1000, and 2000, I get a very useful edge. I have the 4000, 8000, 16000, and 30000 stones, but I have not had to use them yet. I use a 140 Atoma diamond stone to flatten the 220. The other stones get levelled with a Shapton 240 diamond glass lapping plate. The feed back is phenomenal both tactile and visual.
 
OK . . . here goes :
Easiest is a good selection of Shapton Pros. A no brainer get four or five from 300s up to 8000 (since you are talking mirror like edges).
or
Older USA made Norton water stones if you happen to find them :700, 4000 and 8000. The 8000 does a really nice job and the mirror off it is impressive (not perfect if you start looking at the bevels with high magnification but to the naked eye you will be very pleased in deed).

Avoid the Norton 220 it is super, super soft similar to your stone that wore so fast.
I threw in a King brand 1000 (or 1200) with my Nortons to bridge that gap between 700 and 4000.
For more serious metal removal look at an extra coarse DMT (I have the big 10 inch).

or . . . and I love this thing . . . a Shapton Pro 120 (the pure white one). Wears pretty well, doesn't glaze even on really hard wear resistant steels, stays pretty darned flat considering. Good to have even if you mix and match rather than go all Shapton.
 
If you want an economical coarse for edge profiling, either Norton Crystolon or the Baryonyx Manticore. If you want to spend a bit more and do not mind a higher wear rate, the Sigma Power Select II #240 is hard to argue against. Limit wear by controlling pressure and slurry development and preserving slurried abrasive by allowing it to dry on the stone for use in subsequent sessions.
 
I have an 80 gritt diamond plate and that feels too rough to actually work on it IMO.
A lot of people suggest the Atoma diamond plates for flattening water stones, so i might get that and also use it for the inicial grinding.
Poblem is, i cant seem to be able to buy it anywhere here in europe. Just like most of your USA-made suggestions. The shipping and taxes are killing it.
I was able to find some shaptons, but not the 120 gritt, and they are not called shapton pro or shapton glass, just shapton hard or soft...
Naniwas seem to be availible also
I did find some DMT stones online here, they are not in stock but at least they sell them. There also seem to be many types of the DMT 325#
The rest i did not find
 
For course work I really like atomas. Never have found a course waterstone that I really liked. I have only tried a few tho. The 220 norton is absolutely horrible, the 320 shapton pro was ok and I forget what the other one was ( it was a cheap one off amazon and wasn't impressed at all) so for waterstones I don't start anymore below 1000 grit. And to be honest I haven't found a stone a really don't like yet. The norton 1000 is pretty soft and is kinda course probably more like a 800 grit. The shapton pro 1000 is really nice and use it to follow the atoma 600. I also like the red brick from cktg for carbon and softer steels. It is a nice in between hardness between the norton and shapton 1k stones and cuts pretty decent. The only downside to it is every now and then I get a piece of grit in it that is huge and needs to be lapped out. The naniwa 2k green brick of joy is wonderful for a everyday kitchen knife finishing stone. The norton 4k is ok cuts decent I guess but is kinda soft for a 4k and is prone to loading up. The shapton pro 5k and 8k is about like any other shapton hard and fast and polish up really well. The norton 8k is really nice. It is hard but not overly hard, you can cut into the stone pretty easy if you aren't careful. It loads up pretty bad but if you use a nagura to build a slurry you can get a fantastic polish off of it. Saw a video somewhere that a guy got one and cut up into naguras, I kinda want to give that a try. O and I forgot the king 1k/6k think of it as pretty average in every way. DMTs are nice too I kinda prefer the atomas for actual sharpening tho because they seem to cut more consistent. I kinda fell down the rabbit hole and am always looking forward to getting another stone. They all seem to have their own personality
 
For course work I really like atomas. Never have found a course waterstone that I really liked. I have only tried a few tho. The 220 norton is absolutely horrible, the 320 shapton pro was ok and I forget what the other one was ( it was a cheap one off amazon and wasn't impressed at all) so for waterstones I don't start anymore below 1000 grit. And to be honest I haven't found a stone a really don't like yet. The norton 1000 is pretty soft and is kinda course probably more like a 800 grit. The shapton pro 1000 is really nice and use it to follow the atoma 600. I also like the red brick from cktg for carbon and softer steels. It is a nice in between hardness between the norton and shapton 1k stones and cuts pretty decent. The only downside to it is every now and then I get a piece of grit in it that is huge and needs to be lapped out. The naniwa 2k green brick of joy is wonderful for a everyday kitchen knife finishing stone. The norton 4k is ok cuts decent I guess but is kinda soft for a 4k and is prone to loading up. The shapton pro 5k and 8k is about like any other shapton hard and fast and polish up really well. The norton 8k is really nice. It is hard but not overly hard, you can cut into the stone pretty easy if you aren't careful. It loads up pretty bad but if you use a nagura to build a slurry you can get a fantastic polish off of it. Saw a video somewhere that a guy got one and cut up into naguras, I kinda want to give that a try. O and I forgot the king 1k/6k think of it as pretty average in every way. DMTs are nice too I kinda prefer the atomas for actual sharpening tho because they seem to cut more consistent. I kinda fell down the rabbit hole and am always looking forward to getting another stone. They all seem to have their own personality

If in need of a good coarse stone you might look into the Manticore or American Mutt stones. I use both frequently to restore battered kitchen knives and the like. Cuts bevel repair time down to a few quick swipes and then I'm right to scratch/apex refinement.
 
If in need of a good coarse stone you might look into the Manticore or American Mutt stones. I use both frequently to restore battered kitchen knives and the like. Cuts bevel repair time down to a few quick swipes and then I'm right to scratch/apex refinement.
Ya I think they will be my next stones. Probably buy one of all that you offer in bench stones
 
If in need of a good coarse stone you might look into the Manticore or American Mutt stones. I use both frequently to restore battered kitchen knives and the like. Cuts bevel repair time down to a few quick swipes and then I'm right to scratch/apex refinement.
Will you have a bench stone soon for the bull thistle?
 
Fairly soon, yes, though the Bull Thistle is deliberately intended to cut with only moderate speed (neither slow nor fast) to avoid burr formation when setting a toothy, slicing scratch pattern on tools.
 
I would start with an Atoma 140, this gives you a good lapping plate and an extra Coarse option.

Because you can get Naniwa I would go with the Naniwa Professional 400, 1000, 3000. This gives you a good base polish and would allow you to move to a Kitayama 8k for final polishing. This would be an ideal set of stones for polishing low to medium alloy steels.
 
Cuts bevel repair time down to a few quick swipes and then I'm right to scratch/apex refinement.
That sounds perfect however i could not find the manticore in my little time of research.. No wonder though with how they translate names here...


I would start with an Atoma 140, this gives you a good lapping plate and an extra Coarse option.

Because you can get Naniwa I would go with the Naniwa Professional 400, 1000, 3000. This gives you a good base polish and would allow you to move to a Kitayama 8k for final polishing. This would be an ideal set of stones for polishing low to medium alloy steels.
i found the dmt dia sharp for around 40$ here not in stock but they do offer it. I think a 320 would work well for flattening and maybe sharpening too. Not sure how it compares to the twice as expensive atoma. would it be worth against two dmts?
i have already tried VERY cheap diamond plates and used them for years and then i got an opportunity to try out an expensive 160$ 600/1000 gritt diamind plate and the difference was huge. It cut well, did not stop cutting (given its been used a lot for several years before i tried it) and even the 1000 gritt cut really fast. If the cheaper dmt compares to the feeling that would be great. No i dont remember the stones name.

the naniwa 400 seems to be recommended everyqhere online i look and is availible, just like the kitayama. I think i cant do too much wrong with those. Then ill just need something even smoother to finish on and sort out what to start with...


Damn miss clicked again, you wont believe me how much i love the auto save feature of this forum...

anyway i thought id show you what kind of edges i like to make.
i would call it a convexed sharp angled V edge or perhaps a short scandi, towards the edge its straight but the belly/shoulder is convexed so it has less resistance and looks cooler :) i think it is pretty much perfect for waterstones too.

as you can see i can pretty much do it, its nowhere near perfect, it takes ages and i end on a 6000 cheap gritt and do the rest on not too great strops with cheap diamond pastes -which takes long too and micro convexes the edge which i do not like too much unless i try to do it delibaretaly.

well i need to figure out how to upload a photo first for you to see it
 
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there. And if you wonder why my folts minimalist looks so weird, i broke the tip the day i got it which was somewhen in 2011 i think - and i learnt sharpening with it since. It is pretty much the easiest knife to sharpen that i know of.
 
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That sounds perfect however i could not find the manticore in my little time of research.. No wonder though with how they translate names here...



i found the dmt dia sharp for around 40$ here not in stock but they do offer it. I think a 320 would work well for flattening and maybe sharpening too. Not sure how it compares to the twice as expensive atoma. would it be worth against two dmts?
i have already tried VERY cheap diamond plates and used them for years and then i got an opportunity to try out an expensive 160$ 600/1000 gritt diamind plate and the difference was huge. It cut well, did not stop cutting (given its been used a lot for several years before i tried it) and even the 1000 gritt cut really fast. If the cheaper dmt compares to the feeling that would be great. No i dont remember the stones name.

the naniwa 400 seems to be recommended everyqhere online i look and is availible, just like the kitayama. I think i cant do too much wrong with those. Then ill just need something even smoother to finish on and sort out what to start with...


Damn miss clicked again, you wont believe me how much i love the auto save feature of this forum...

anyway i thought id show you what kind of edges i like to make.
i would call it a convexed sharp angled V edge or perhaps a short scandi, towards the edge its straight but the belly/shoulder is convexed so it has less resistance and looks cooler :) i think it is pretty much perfect for waterstones too.

as you can see i can pretty much do it, its nowhere near perfect, it takes ages and i end on a 6000 cheap gritt and do the rest on not too great strops with cheap diamond pastes -which takes long too and micro convexes the edge which i do not like too much unless i try to do it delibaretaly.

well i need to figure out how to upload a photo first for you to see it

The DMT Coarse is not for lapping and will be used at your own risk. IMO, it's an awful choice for a lapping plat. The Atoma 140 or DMT XXC will work far better and last longer than the 320, plus with the NP400 (Naniwa Pro) there would be no need for a 320 diamond plate. The DMT 320 is not a direction I would advise.

The Naniwa Pro 400, 1000 and 3000 will provide a superior scratch pattern to other stones which allows polishing stones like the 8k Kitayama to produce cleaner and deeper polishes. If you want to further the polish, especially on a convex edge, I would go with 1 micron diamond on a quality horse hide strop. This will produce a very clean and even finish with the type of bevels you are using.
 
The DMT Coarse is not for lapping and will be used at your own risk. IMO, it's an awful choice for a lapping plat. The Atoma 140 or DMT XXC will work far better and last longer than the 320, plus with the NP400 (Naniwa Pro) there would be no need for a 320 diamond plate. The DMT 320 is not a direction I would advise.

The Naniwa Pro 400, 1000 and 3000 will provide a superior scratch pattern to other stones which allows polishing stones like the 8k Kitayama to produce cleaner and deeper polishes. If you want to further the polish, especially on a convex edge, I would go with 1 micron diamond on a quality horse hide strop. This will produce a very clean and even finish with the type of bevels you are using.
thanks for the warning, i will check those out.
i will definately still use diamond strops and possibly upgrade them too. Id just like to do as much on stones as possible before going to the strop.
the cheap diamonds i have work well, they just cut slowly because they have less diamonds and my leather isnt the best (but i soaked it and rolled it flat last week and that has improved the strop a lot). i have made a strop set (5, 3.5, 2.5, 1.5, 1, 0.5, 0.25 micron) and i try to start at my last finish which is now somwhere between 2.5 and 1.5 but often contains deeper scratches that the strops dont get rid of unless i use them for an hour which does not help the edge anymore.

so yes, definately upgradable, but first after i upgrade my stones.
 
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