Refund status

argyle1812

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
1,456
I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread showing how long it will take to receive a refund so others know what to expect. I emailed S! yesterday asking for a refund on my 7/7 preorder and my GSO 8 preorder. Both of which were ordered about a year ago. Well see if I get my refund by the end of next week as Ellie mentioned in the other thread.
 
Good for you! Now that a new restructuring is going on again per survive you'll get it fast.
 
I preordered the GSO-4 Limited on 11/12/16 and am now a week past the 10 months they said it WOULD be shipped after. The actual timeline given was 6-10 months. I had no problem waiting that for the knife, but hearing people are having to wait years didn't exactly bolster my confidence in their ability to deliver anywhere near on time. I asked them nicely to either ship my knife out in the next week or kindly refund my money on the preorder. Honestly, the knife would be preferred at this point, however, I'm not sure I want to gamble money on the fact I may get neither knife nor money back if I wait too long.
 
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Emailed survive Saturday asking about my 4.1 2nd order as well as a refund. Received a response yesterday that my order was gonna ship within 90 days. I choose to respond to that email with a request for a refund. Didn't want to wait 90 days, to find out it still wasn't close to shipping. As of now no response to the refund request. Will let you all know when I get a refund. Or if it's before the end of next week.
 
I pre-ordered a GSO 4.1 Factory Second on 03/01/2017 and as of today it has gone way past the 90 days, so I also asked for cancellation of that order since 08/10/2017, and still have not received a refund for that order.
I had also pre-ordered a GSO-8 since 09/23/2016, and because of the same casual disregard of timelines, production schedules that continuously shift and email excuses that most are familiar with, I also decided to cancel that pre-order at the same time.

The last email I sent asking for the status of the refunds was two weeks ago, and is still unanswered. Paying for the knives in advance was not an issue. Completely breaking trust with customers is.

Would the real Survive! Knives please stand up and deliver?
 
I'm really torn as to whether I should request a refund on my 90-day+ 4.1 2nd. Half of me says "Protect my money". Half of me says "Don't get caught up in the panic and thus hurt the company". But as much as I want to the support S!K, things are just looking worse. And Ellie's response in the "poor customer service" thread left a bad taste in my mouth. Like I said - torn!
 
I'm going to hang in there awhile longer to see how the year plays out, I'll just be motivated to hear others here begin to start receiving their orders no matter which model it may be. If anything it will show progress is moving forward. Of course it would be nice to get some sort of updates on orders placed by order# and or dates as I'm totally confused on which pre-sale/pre-ordered 4.1s as well as other models have been shipped out and received.
 
I'm really torn as to whether I should request a refund on my 90-day+ 4.1 2nd. Half of me says "Protect my money". Half of me says "Don't get caught up in the panic and thus hurt the company". But as much as I want to the support S!K, things are just looking worse. And Ellie's response in the "poor customer service" thread left a bad taste in my mouth. Like I said - torn!
Check with how you paid (paypal, credit card) and see how long you have to file a claim. Paypal is 180 days.
 
Well, with the GSO-6 production not really progressing, I have decided to ask for a refund for my orders. It's been about 14 months since the pre-order closed and I paid 15-16 months ago.
Emails were sent today, now a new form of waiting begins.

DAY 1
 
I'm really torn as to whether I should request a refund on my 90-day+ 4.1 2nd. Half of me says "Protect my money". Half of me says "Don't get caught up in the panic and thus hurt the company". But as much as I want to the support S!K, things are just looking worse. And Ellie's response in the "poor customer service" thread left a bad taste in my mouth. Like I said - torn!
What did she say?
 
I pre-ordered a GSO 4.1 Factory Second on 03/01/2017

How can a company do a 'preorder' on a factory second.....? Odd.

Anyway. I preordered a gso 6 on the 12th May 2016 and cancelled it on the 13th May 2017. I got one email a few days later saying they received my email and got the refund on the 31st May 2017.
 
How can a company do a 'preorder' on a factory second.....? Odd
I wondered the same thing. Here's the way it was explained to me, in great detail I must say.
They do anticipate a certain percentage of "seconds" from each run based on prior experience. They seem to have been taken aback by production on the 4.7s, as that run generated far more "seconds" than they were anticipating. My Starter 4.7 came with a note from Guy & Ellie apologizing for this very fact, stating that it had taken them a long time to get to my starter-order because of the sheer number of 'second' blades.
S!K has mentioned that some "seconds" are noted coming from the grinders, others are pulled out after surface finishing, others may be pulled out due to handle-fitment issues (that was another complication they ran into on the 4.7's - incomplete curing of the micarta that resulted in shaped scales not fitting correctly to blanks, each blank is individually fitted for scales).
It is noteworthy that someone on instagram asked about the possibility of 'seconds' from the last and final batch of 2.7's and the reply was that S!K wasn't anticipating many if any. I don't know how many "second" 7/7s there are, but I would not be surprised if they are putting more effort into not losing money on any blank they get back. When the 12's start cutting and grinding, I wonder if they will even allow any to remain "seconds" if they can do anything at all to prevent it...

"Off Quality" is a relative term here. S!K has commented that they finish-out seconds because they are still better than scrap and they can get them out to customers willing to pay... whether customers are also willing to wait is the main issue. S!K rarely has a problem selling off inventory. They also receive knives back from grinding or HT in batches, and sometimes it is just easier to get the mess of 'seconds' out of the shop to keep Guy or someone else from fussing with them and wasting more time that could be better spent on true 'firsts' or something else.

Moving a portion of production to a separate company allows S!K to focus on making 'firsts' and lets someone else handle finishing out blades in a timely fashion. *shrug* If we are lucky, it will also allow S!K to hire more help on the customer-service end as well.
 
I believe the people who received "Seconds" questioned why they were "Seconds" since they couldn't find any flaws on the knife. This led to the belief the "Seconds" were just being sold to generate revenue.

Remember Lance (the unofficial official spokesman for survive! knives)- “the company is now "asset rich and cash poor."

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/poor-customer-service.1517607/page-6

Which means survive! knives needs to generate operating expenses by selling knives to generate the funds to make the knives already paid for while not actually making the knives they just sold.

There’s a difference between being mean and just telling the truth. Anyone new who is going to “invest” in this company needs to know the truth.
 
...survive! knives needs to generate operating expenses by selling knives to generate the funds to make the knives already paid for while not actually making the knives they just sold...

The seconds have a shorter delivery time-frame for a reason, namely that those knives are already in process and were paid for with the "investment" (and yes, Survive! actually used that word in the Starter program that generated the funds that got production rolling in the first place) of knives sold in the Starter program.
Survive! has stated on this forum and Lance simply re-iterated that S!K used the Starter funds to build infrastructure as well as purchase steel in sufficient volume to build not just the knives ordered but MANY MANY more, and putting in deposits with contractors to produce said knives, hence becoming "asset rich and cash poor". THAT is the "truth" as far as we know it.

It is clear that S!K over-spent on assets, particularly in light of the fact that a LOT of the product turned out unsatisfactory (again, based on what we know). Now, what is a tiny company to do when the contractor returns tons of product that doesn't meet your specs? Something went horribly wrong there, but that is being kept private and so S!K must bear the penalty from consumers who expected their knives LONG ago. *shrug*

If you buy a "pre-order" knife, you are paying for a product that isn't even made yet and providing S!K the capital to make that and probably other knives as well, i.e. you are investing in the production of your knife while subsidizing the manufacture of knives that other people will pay for down the line. And by the way, that is true for products you buy from other companies "off the shelf" as well. *shrug*

If you paid for a second, you are actually paying for a knife that is in production on someone else's investment that didn't quite meet specifications so it is offered to you at a discount (and shorter delivery time frame, long as it may be) and S!K will use those funds as part of getting that "someone else's investment" ready for them (since you now own the knife that was supposed to be theirs), and yes that includes keeping the production facility in operation. So in a sense, yes, your funds help generate future knives while your knife was paid for by funds that came before yours, but that knife you paid for only exists because some person (not you) invested in its production to begin with and the product wasn't satisfactory.
 
Which means survive! knives needs to generate operating expenses by selling knives to generate the funds to make the knives already paid for while not actually making the knives they just sold.

There’s a difference between being mean and just telling the truth. Anyone new who is going to “invest” in this company needs to know the truth.

It is clear that S!K over-spent on assets, particularly in light of the fact that a LOT of the product turned out unsatisfactory (again, based on what we know). Now, what is a tiny company to do when the contractor returns tons of product that doesn't meet your specs? Something went horribly wrong there, but that is being kept private and so S!K must bear the penalty from consumers who expected their knives LONG ago. *shrug*

If you buy a "pre-order" knife, you are paying for a product that isn't even made yet and providing S!K the capital to make that and probably other knives as well, i.e. you are investing in the production of your knife while subsidizing the manufacture of knives that other people will pay for down the line. And by the way, that is true for products you buy from other companies "off the shelf" as well. *shrug*

If you paid for a second, you are actually paying for a knife that is in production on someone else's investment that didn't quite meet specifications so it is offered to you at a discount (and shorter delivery time frame, long as it may be) and S!K will use those funds as part of getting that "someone else's investment" ready for them (since you now own the knife that was supposed to be theirs), and yes that includes keeping the production facility in operation. So in a sense, yes, your funds help generate future knives while your knife was paid for by funds that came before yours, but that knife you paid for only exists because some person (not you) invested in its production to begin with and the product wasn't satisfactory.

Come on guys, let's stick to actual facts you actually know. These statements are complete and utter speculation based on assumptions about a company actions in which you have no first hand inside knowledge.

Sure Survive! is lousy with delivery estimates, timelines, and communication, but show me the balance sheets, the asset purchases versus what was planned, the number of products produced and what percentage was unsatisfactory detail you seem to possess on a private company. Clearly only Survive has this information, and while your opinions of why may be right, wrong or in the middle, they are not truths anymore than Survive's most recent estimate on shipping.

I've stopped my Survive purchases a while ago for the same lousy delivery estimates, timelines, and communication they are now well known for. I also know these threads will never stop, but the made up part skewering the company and owners, implying fraud, malice and intent will really be Survives demise. I will miss them when they are gone and will sell my S!K users for many times what I paid just like my REKAT knives from decades ago.
 
Come on guys, let's stick to actual facts you actually know. These statements are complete and utter speculation based on assumptions about a company actions in which you have no first hand inside knowledge.

Sure Survive! is lousy with delivery estimates, timelines, and communication, but show me the balance sheets, the asset purchases versus what was planned, the number of products produced and what percentage was unsatisfactory detail you seem to possess on a private company. Clearly only Survive has this information, and while your opinions of why may be right, wrong or in the middle, they are not truths anymore than Survive's most recent estimate on shipping.

I've stopped my Survive purchases a while ago for the same lousy delivery estimates, timelines, and communication they are now well known for. I also know these threads will never stop, but the made up part skewering the company and owners, implying fraud, malice and intent will really be Survives demise. I will miss them when they are gone and will sell my S!K users for many times what I paid just like my REKAT knives from decades ago.

I agree 100% about sticking to the facts and not speculating or making accusations. This will only hurt the company and those that are sticking it out and waiting on knives to be made. If the company gets slandered and their reputation damaged to the point of closing shop, nobody will get a knife or a refund.

Also, that is not what this thread is about, there are plenty of threads that are flaming S!K right now, but I personally know the OP and know for fact this thread was not created to further slander the company, but only to track refunds so that others may know what to expect.

With that out of the way, i have received prompt responses from Jordyn regarding the refund. She let me know the 4 LE will not be done for at least another 90 days, and asked if I wanted to wait or wanted a refund. She said they do not keep credit cards on file so they could mail a check or Paypal the refund. This was done earlier today, and she responded twice to me today within a few hours of emailing them. I emailed her back my PayPal email and will let you all know when the refund is completed.
 
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Got the same email about not keeping credit cards on file, I chose to just get my refund via PayPal.
 
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