Reliable and durable desktop workstation (PC)? HP, DELL, ???

S

Sid Post

Joined
Oct 14, 1998
Messages
4,675
My HP Pavilion Elite desktop died so, now I'm in the market for a "better", more reliable, more durable, etc. computer to replace it. Given a budget of ~$2500, what are the better buys? I should note that I DO NOT PLAY GAMES and I'm looking for something that is great for general web surfing and engineering applications with some possible video editing or conversions in the future.

I'm looking at an HP Z620 with an Intel® Xeon® E5-1650 CPU or a similarly configured Dell Precision T3600 workstation. How do these two compare? Am I missing a similar or better option from a competing manufacturer?

Thanks,
Sid
 
The same things that make a computer good for games makes it good for video editing and other tasks. Personally, I would avoid big box computers as you will just get less for more.
Check out cyberpower PC, you can get a very capable tower configured with the exact hardware you want.
 
Snap together your own. You'll save money, get a better warranty, and have total control over the computer's appearance and component selection.
The biggest savings will come from re-using components from your current system - keyboard, mouse, speakers, sound card, dvd drives, card reader, etc. Perhaps even the case, hard drive(s), and RAM. That's hundreds of dollars of savings, and a significant environmental benefit too.

The best part is that the machine will be entirely custom built for your exact application, meaning you can direct the budget towards the components that are important to you, and skimp on, or skip completely, features and components you don't need and won't use. Aren't going to play games for example, then you probably don't need new surround speakers, a high-end sound card, or ultra-fast gaming graphics. For examples.

And the also-best part is you'll have complete assurance that the computer is built with standardized interchangeable components that can easily be replaced or upgraded in the future.

I just snapped together a specialized photo-editing computer. I skimped on the graphics and sound but loaded up on processor speed, RAM, and hard drives. Way less than your budget, and probably complete overkill for your actual needs (or mine).

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...mputer-build-for-photo-video-editing-Graphics

HP Z620 with an Intel® Xeon® E5-1650 CPU
Click to expand...
My understanding is that the Xeon processors are the exact same as standard desktop processors, except that they are designed to be installed in pairs. Do you need multiple processors? If not, you'll perhaps save $$ by buying a standard i7 processor of similar speed.

The two computers you listed do have 3-year warranties, which is far better than comes standard on typical off-the-shelf computers (Apple computers come with only a one-year warranty, for example. Lower-end Dells are also 1 year.). Buy the stuff yourself and you can do at least as good. Intel processors, 3 years. RAM, lifetime warranty from most companies. Asus motherboards, 3 years. Seagate hard drives, 5 years. Graphic cards, 2 or 3 years depending on brand.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps we should back up entirely. Exactly what "died" on your HP? Any interest in simply repairing your current machine?
Unless it's one of those goofy brands that uses non-standard components (ie. Apple, some Dells, other off-the-shelf brands, and all laptops and all-in-one computers), it should be easy and inexpensive to swap out the faulty component.

Any interest in walking through it?
 
I work at an MSP, we're pretty much a Dell shop, but I personally own an HP, and a Toshiba (both purchased through the company). With Dell you can open a small business account for purchasing, the discount isn't that great but the advantage that I've found is that when you order a computer it wont come with all the crap bloatware that comes with computers from the big box places. The other advantage would be you get better warranties

The other route to go is like what BobW suggested and assemble your own... pretty easy to do, and sometimes you can get more bang for your buck... Or just fix your old machine...
 
For a Windows machine I would recommend HP for a desktop, if you want a laptop ASUS, Lenovo, or HP. In the last 6 months, I've repaired 20+ laptops and 17 or more very Dell. Macs are nice, but they are different and there is a learning curve for most folks used to Win PCs.
 
My current computer is a cheap HP consumer grade with a single PCI-E slot (original vintage) and an I-7. With it's 300W power supply and a dead graphics card, my upgrade options are pretty limited.

I have built my own computers in the past but, there really isn't enough component lift from this one to be worth the effort. I also don't really want to mess with debugging a "self build" or spend the time it has taken in the past to get a stable reliable system running.

Also worth noting, I am AVOIDING the big box store options. I also don't want a consumer grade bloatware loaded machine.

My experiences with self builds, big box store builds, the cheap HP's at work, and my HP Z800 workstation at work suggest spending the extra money on a quality workstation build is worthwhile. My Z800 at work has been robust through component swaps, maintenance, etc. so that's part of the reason I'm avoiding the main stream online "prosumer" vendors.
 
RevDevil said:
Macs are nice, but they are different and there is a learning curve for most folks used to Win PCs.
Click to expand...

I really like Apple computers but, I don't like their price "gouging" and proprietary components. I also have issues with their "Apple Ecosystem".
 
I have not bought a name brand desktop computer since I bought my original IBM PC 30 years ago. At my job I used a Compaq for awhile, about 20 years ago. Since that IBM PC I've built my own home computers, and for the past 12 years my computers at work were custom ordered from a local supplier with parts that we specified. I got a new job 6 months ago and my current employer leases Dell workstations. They are very expensive computers and not very fast compared to my home computer that I built 4 years ago, but I understand that leasing has some advantages over purchasing. I have watched reliability ratings for laptops and my understanding is that ASUS, Toshiba and Lenovo are the better laptops, Dell is a little lower, and HP laptops are generally lower in reliability. I don't know how dekstops compare but based on the laptop ratings I would be suspicious of HP desktops. If I had to buy a name brand desktop I might look at Lenovo first.

Xeon was mentioned, I think this is a mistake for a home computer. They are significantly more expensive than consumer Intel processors and I don't think they provide any advantages. My current work machine has dual Xeon processors but is significantly slower than my 4 year old home computer that I built with a $200 Intel processor. My experience has been that Intel processors are significantly more powerful than AMD processors, and a quad core is worthwhile, but Xeons and anything beyond 4 processor cores is not required unless you are doing significant amounts of video processing. You should be able to buy a very good workstation for under $1000. I priced a drafting workstation with the best of everything recently for running autocad and revit and was still under $1500. I run engineering apps every day and Revit requires far more hardware than any of our engineering apps.
 
Take a look at Intel's Next Unit of Computing products.

I, as an electrical engineer who designs embedded computing products, have long wondered why PCs have multi-hundred-Watt power supplies in them, why they have multiple fans in them, why they have so many wiring harnesses in them. And then Apple introduced the MiniMac line. I have a MiniMac myself and I love it and would encourage you to look at those too. This is an elegant design. They run on less than 15 Watt! The single fan is inaudible. And the higher-end models are quite powerful.

My bachelor's degree is in Computer Engineering. While I use it quite a bit, Windows makes me want to vomit; it is everything that I was taught that an operating system should NOT be. It fails every criteria for a well-designed and well-implemented operating system.

When Steve Jobs was kicked out of Apple, he started his own company, Next. Their hardware product was way to expensive and the company failed. But Jobs kept the operating system development team on his personal payroll and kept them working to develop from scratch a brand new operating system, one which would meet every criteria for a well-designed and well-implemented operating system.... and to do this without any specific deadlines or pressures to "get the next release out," and no burden of supporting a fielded product. When Jobs returned to Apple, he brought that team with him and they polished up their product and it became OS10. Speaking as a Computer Engineer, I can tell you that it is really, really good; this is what an operating system should be.

Now, Intel has seen the MiniMac and they finally decided that maybe it was time for PCs to evolve too. NUC, Next Unit of Computing, is that evolution. These things are less than $300 and very well-designed. I think you ought to take a look at them. Of course, you'd still be running Windoz, but we all have to face that curse.
 
The NEXT was a really cool computer but, like all of the early Apple Mac products, they priced themselves out of the market.

The Next Unit of Computing Intel's look nice but, by the time I add memory and an mSata hard drive, I'm at the price point of an I-7 Mini-Mac or pretty good desktop computer. Hmmm .... maybe it's time to take a Mac on a long term test drive.
 
If you dont want to build your own, I would go to Ebay and look up custom builds from companies like EcollegePC or Utopia. Both will get you a custom pc with great components and warranty without crap you dont need in software and cheap hardware.

Good luck!
 
NUC's are pretty expensive for what they are. You can get a laptop for the price of a well spec'ed NUC. I'm sure the prices will come down eventually but they are a bit of a novelty still.
Click to expand...

Novelty is right. I can see certain applications for these, but a general purpose workstation computer is not one of them. :thumbdn:

And at close to $300 for the base unit, sheesh. You still have to buy a monitor, keyboard, mouse, external optical drive, RAM, hard drive, card reader, speakers... And with bottom-of-the line processor, and no real graphic card or sound card... And you can forget about upgrading or expanding in the future since the craptastic sound and graphics are built into the motherboard. Even the processor is pre-soldered to the motherboard, so it can never be replaced or upgraded. Good luck finding compatible replacement parts at a reasonable prices in the future too.

Expandability
2 PCIe* mini slots (1 half-length & 1 full/half-length)
2 USB 2.0 connectors on back panel
1 USB 3.0 connector on front panel
Click to expand...

That's a joke, right? :grumpy:
 
Bob W said:
Novelty is right. I can see certain applications for these, but a general purpose workstation computer is not one of them. :thumbdn:

And at close to $300 for the base unit, sheesh. You still have to buy a monitor, keyboard, mouse, external optical drive, RAM, hard drive, card reader, speakers... And with bottom-of-the line processor, and no real graphic card or sound card... And you can forget about upgrading or expanding in the future since the craptastic sound and graphics are built into the motherboard. Even the processor is pre-soldered to the motherboard, so it can never be replaced or upgraded. Good luck finding compatible replacement parts at a reasonable prices in the future too.



That's a joke, right? :grumpy:
Click to expand...

I guess it comes down to how much oomph you need from your computer. The traditional desktop pc is a bit like an american muscle car, not very fuel efficient but has a lot of oomph. Many people could get by with less. The NUC's and ultrabooks of the tech world are more like the gas sipping commuter cars from faraway lands. You'll end up with lower power bills and less excess heat at the cost of getting there a little slower. With computers, like with automobiles, the extra power of a performance rig is wasted on the average user.

I totally agree they are pricing themselves out of the market with the current NUC crop but I can see them being quite attractive when prices come down. Card readers, optical media and dedicated sound/graphics are not that important to many computer users these days. A few fast USB ports, HDMI/Displayport, 3.5 mm jack, and a connection to the internet is all many users require from their computer.

The part about traditional desktops being upgradeable is kind of moot in my experience too. For my last few desktop upgrades I've had to upgrade pretty much everything but the case and powersupply anyway when I want to change one part of the equation. Incompatibility between different generations of motherboards, CPU's, GPU's, memory, and even hard drives means everything must go.
 
Incompatibility between different generations of motherboards, CPU's, GPU's, memory, and even hard drives means everything must go.
Click to expand...

Shoot, you can still buy brand new motherboards with floppy connectors, AGP graphic card slots, serial ports, and IDE hard drive plugs. And all of that 'vintage' technology continues to work just great with Windows XP, Windows 7, and probably even Windows 8. :confused:
And if your computer doesn't have any of these things, and you want them, it's easy as heck to add them, as long as it's a real computer with a standard case.

The NUC's graphic connector would be irritating, and extremely limiting. HDMI only. Although I suppose you could buy adapters for other plug types (at an extra cost of course). For comparison my new graphic card, not an expensive model, has plugs for DVI (2 of them), HDMI, and standard D-sub, meaning it's compatible with practically any television or monitor. And if I don't like those choices, I can swap it out for a different graphic card in ten minutes.

The real surprise with those Intel things though is the lack of USB plugs. Everything these days, as far as external components, is USB. Keyboard, mouse, camera, printer, scanner, GPS, calculator, PDA/smartphone, AV components, card readers, external drives... Even the cheapest laptops have at least four plugs.

-------------

I have a long and hateful history of failed attempts at upgrading or repairing all-in-one computers or "media centers." Software and drivers unavailable, super-expensive replacement parts, unavailable parts, no room for expansion or upgrades, proprietary power supply designs, irreplaceable graphic components, rare memory chips, "onboard" components that require replacing the entire motherboard... Ugh. :grumpy:

The worst were some G3 iMac machines given to me for repair that ended up just going to the dump, although I also get anxiety thinking about a Dell "media center" I handled once. :mad:

When you buy machines like those, forget about future repairs or maintenance and consider them disposable.
 
Bob W said:
Shoot, you can still buy brand new motherboards with floppy connectors, AGP graphic card slots, serial ports, and IDE hard drive plugs. And all of that 'vintage' technology continues to work just great with Windows XP, Windows 7, and probably even Windows 8. :confused:
And if your computer doesn't have any of these things, and you want them, it's easy as heck to add them, as long as it's a real computer with a standard case.

The NUC's graphic connector would be irritating, and extremely limiting. HDMI only. Although I suppose you could buy adapters for other plug types (at an extra cost of course). For comparison my new graphic card, not an expensive model, has plugs for DVI (2 of them), HDMI, and standard D-sub, meaning it's compatible with practically any television or monitor. And if I don't like those choices, I can swap it out for a different graphic card in ten minutes.

The real surprise with those Intel things though is the lack of USB plugs. Everything these days, as far as external components, is USB. Keyboard, mouse, camera, printer, scanner, GPS, calculator, PDA/smartphone, AV components, card readers, external drives... Even the cheapest laptops have at least four plugs.

-------------

I have a long and hateful history of failed attempts at upgrading or repairing all-in-one computers or "media centers." Software and drivers unavailable, super-expensive replacement parts, unavailable parts, no room for expansion or upgrades, proprietary power supply designs, irreplaceable graphic components, rare memory chips, "onboard" components that require replacing the entire motherboard... Ugh. :grumpy:

The worst were some G3 iMac machines given to me for repair that ended up just going to the dump, although I also get anxiety thinking about a Dell "media center" I handled once. :mad:

When you buy machines like those, forget about future repairs or maintenance and consider them disposable.
Click to expand...

I do not know which NUC you are looking at. These are the specs for the newest one. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit-d54250wyk.html It has 4 USB 3.0 ports, ethernet, displayport and hdmi.

I guess you could call them disposable to some extent. You have 3-4 lego pieces that fit together. If one lego breaks you replace it. If spare parts are no longer available you have to replace the whole package. However this also holds for traditional desktops. If you can't find the old style drives to go with your motherboard at a reasonable price you replace the motherboard, this new motherboard will be handicapped by your old processor and memory, so you end up replacing them too.... The NUC is just the traditional desktop with fewer lego pieces to put together.

---
A tip for ensuring spare parts for your desktops. I usually time my upgrade cycles with other family members and purchase 2-3 systems with identical hardware. When stuff starts falling apart down the line there are parts available. :)
 
I stick with Lenovo products almost exclusively. Have you tried the Lenovo outlet website?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top