respirator use while sanding and filing in an apartment

S

scubasteve4sq

Joined
Mar 20, 2012
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141
ok i didnt see this mentioned in the safety tips sticky, so i'm asking you guys. do i need to wear a respirator when filing/sanding/grinding in my apartment? is it only for specific metals that a respirator is required? what are the effects of metal inhilation? pretty sure i got a mouthfull or two from the filework i did on my first knife.

i wear respirators at work regularly because i work on ammonia refrigeration equipment so i have a full face respirator with cartriges made to filter out ammonia gas, im assuming this would be more than adequate to filter out dust and metal particles. is there any gas or metal vapor concerns that would require specialized filter cartriges?

thanks,
craig
 
I think its a good idea to practice using a respirater any time you are around airborne dust. Good habit. I work in the painting business and I am a student knife maker and I just use them allways. If you can taste it in your mouth you should have one on. Good luck.
 
I would not assume anything involving health, be sure. Take the time, find out and be sure.

Also, filing and sanding in a living space. The dust gets all over. Even with a great dust collection system, i would be careful, I do work in my attached garage and don't like the amount of duat that finds its way in the house from shoes or clothes. Also working with g10 out there makes it kind of a toxic dust zone.

Doing the work outside somewhere would be safer.
Health is the most valuable thing to me.
 
The ammonia filter cartridges will probably not be sufficient to filter out really fine particulates, and the dust will clog them up or contaminate them making them less effective at filtering ammonia. But having a full face respirator with replaceable cartridges that fits you, and that you know how to use, puts you way ahead of the game. Get some HEPA filter cartridges for your respirator and swap them out for the ammonia ones and you should be well protected from any dust you are likely to make from grinding metals and handle materials.

The catch, as has been mentioned, is what happens when you remove the respirator. This is your apartment, so unless you have a really splendid dust collection plan and some fantastic (and expensive) equipment, all that fine dust you created will hang in the air a really long time and get stirred up again any time you walk across the carpet or fluff the pillows, etc. Big particles from filing are not such an issue, small dust from sanding or grinding is. As to how toxic the dust is, it depends on the material. Some materials like cadmium or beryllium copper can be deadly, nickel and chromium 6 can cause cancer, nickel is also a sensitizer...a lot of exotic woods are sensitizers or direct irritants...

The Artist's Complete Health and Safety Guide by Monona Rossol would be a good reference to answer some of your questions in more depth.
 
Yes I just found out that the bolster I was shaping isn't actually brass but berilium copper. I wasn't wearing my mask and I feel like a real idiot now. Hopefully ill be ok but rest assured I wont be taking chances anymore. I really appreciate the advice and I just ordered some hepa cartriges for my respirator. Can't believe I was sanding the berilium copper. Don't be an idiot like me guys safety first!

Ill be much more wary of using scrap parts I can get at work too (the berilium copper I thought was brass)
 
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The filters you want for particles are P100

You can get separate filters, or also Prefilters that snap over your chemical filters too



which mask?
 
Ammonia cartridges are very specific and by themseleves, they won't do doodly to protect you from particulates. Don't quote me on this, but I don't think HEPA filters will protect you fully from the things we encounter in our knife shops.

Don't guess or take my word for it; Contact the maker of your respirator to be sure you have the right cartridges and filters for organic vapors and fine particles.
 
On many respirators they allow you to purchase stackable cartridges to do gasses and particulate. Carbon is good for most solvents but for other chemical you will need a cartridge made for that compound. Carbon is your best choice for all around solvents coupled with a good particulate will cover most of the stuff in the shop.

You need to set up a way to get the particulate and vapors out of the room as well, even a fan in the window will be better than letting the dust settle everywhere to be inhaled later.

N95elastomeric.jpg
 
thanks so much for all the advice guys, i'm going to call 3M tomorrow and ask them some questions.

here is the mask i have
mediawebserver


its made by 3m its a full- face dual cartridge mask
3M 7800S(M)
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/PPESafetySolutions/PPESafety/Personal_Protective_Equipment/Product_Catalog/~/3M-Full-Facepiece-7800S-M-Respiratory-Protection-Medium-Silicone-1-EA/Case?N=4294930978+5011378&Nr=AND%28hrcy_id%3AGS4NR62TD2gs_X9C5QRX8KM_N2RL3FHWVK_GPD0K8BC31gv%29&rt=d

it says it takes a wide assortment of cartridges so i should be able to find what i need, i like the stacking cartridge idea that sounds like exactly what i want. i dont mind wearing this respirateor, its made to work in a hot sweaty environment so even prolonged use doesn't start feeling like your head weighs 200 lbs (its very light) and it sits on the face comfortably as well.

for a cartridge i was thinking about the 3M 6099ABEK2P3SL

it protects against
Organic Vapours, Inorganic and Acid Gases, Ammoniasand derivatives & particulates(For use with Full face pieces only)
Use of Chlorine, Bleach,
HydrogenChloride, Sulphur Dioxide, HydrogenSulphide Ammonia Methylamineparticulate.
 
I think you are well on the way to getting exactly what you need. :thumbup: Comfort and fit are very important! If it's too heavy, you simply won't wear it, and if it doesn't fit right, it won't seal onto your noggin and protect you.

When you call the manu, tell them exactly what materials you're working with. They'll look up the proper cartridges for you.
 
scubasteve4sq said:
thanks so much for all the advice guys, i'm going to call 3M tomorrow and ask them some questions.

here is the mask i have
mediawebserver


its made by 3m its a full- face dual cartridge mask
3M 7800S(M)
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/PPESafetySolutions/PPESafety/Personal_Protective_Equipment/Product_Catalog/~/3M-Full-Facepiece-7800S-M-Respiratory-Protection-Medium-Silicone-1-EA/Case?N=4294930978+5011378&Nr=AND%28hrcy_id%3AGS4NR62TD2gs_X9C5QRX8KM_N2RL3FHWVK_GPD0K8BC31gv%29&rt=d

it says it takes a wide assortment of cartridges so i should be able to find what i need, i like the stacking cartridge idea that sounds like exactly what i want. i dont mind wearing this respirateor, its made to work in a hot sweaty environment so even prolonged use doesn't start feeling like your head weighs 200 lbs (its very light) and it sits on the face comfortably as well.

for a cartridge i was thinking about the 3M 6099ABEK2P3SL

it protects against
Organic Vapours, Inorganic and Acid Gases, Ammoniasand derivatives & particulates(For use with Full face pieces only)
Use of Chlorine, Bleach,
HydrogenChloride, Sulphur Dioxide, HydrogenSulphide Ammonia Methylamineparticulate.
Click to expand...


That face piece =
Use with 3M™ Filters 2000 Series, 3M™ Cartridges 6000 Series, 3M™ Cartridges and Filters 7000 Series


The organic vapor will give you some protection against epoxy, acetone fumes, and the formaldehyde that is said to be off gassed when you work the laminates.

On that cartridge you quote, I don't see the dust particle protection.
Watch for P100


Try this one for on integrated cartridge. If you want a disposable dust filter, there are different types.


this one has the P100 protection, be sure it fits your facepiece

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...26gs_TX0VRXC7KP_N2RL3FHWVK_GPD0K8BC31gv)&rt=d

If you're ordering 3M direct, you may have to order full cases,
Try local safety shops for pairs of filters and advice.
 
Your name is Scubasteve...just use one of your air tanks and a regulator...Problem solved!!
 
haha yeah i didnt think about using one of my tanks, that would be better than any filter. i have an adapter for the mask to hook up to a tank so should be no problem.
 
tryppyr said:
I think the most important message is DO NOT WORK IN YOUR APARTMENT.
Click to expand...

+1
That is great advice. Stuff like G10 and Carbon Fiber are really nasty to the lungs. The respirator is only good while you are working. What happens when you take it off and all that dust is still floating around and getting all over place? As it is I am pretty wary about working with that stuff in a warehouse type environment. I wear a respirator and run a filtered vacuum at the same time. I do my best to clean up the area as best I can when I am done. I would never even consider working with G10 or Carbon Fiber in my living quarters.
 
Unfortunately i dont have the luxury of a warehouse or shop or even a garage to work in. I have some air filtration systems for inside the apartment and ill try to work outside whenever possible.
 
scubasteve4sq said:
Unfortunately i dont have the luxury of a warehouse or shop or even a garage to work in. I have some air filtration systems for inside the apartment and ill try to work outside whenever possible.
Click to expand...

I think you need to really take this seriously. We've seen too many stories about people who die protracted and painful deaths because of the fine particulate matter that built up in their lungs because of carelessness at some point in their hobby. Please don't add to the count of deceased knifemakers whose lives were needlessly cut short because they couldn't do things the right way.
 
I am taking it seriously which is why i started this thread. I have acid washed concrete floors and an open area to work in. Cleanup shouldnt be too much of an issue. As i said whenever possible i will work outside. It sounds like your saying i shouldnt attempt knife making at all. Believe me i wish i had a shop to work in but right now that isnt possible. Ive really enjoyed making my first knife and im going to continue to do so. I will mitigate the risk as much as possible but to quote bob loveless "this hobby will probably shorten my life, but the satisfaction that comes with creating something with my own hands, something so usefull, something 200 years from now that someone will carry and use bearing my name, i have no regrets" ( yes i know he died from lung cancer)
 
I'm not saying you shouldn't take it up... I'm saying be smart about your choices. Working in your apartment isn't a smart choice.

Working outside IS a smart choice. You've said twice now "I'll work outside whenever possible." If the apartment is the only space you can call your own, you should work outside exclusively. If it's raining, find something else to do. If it's too hot outside, find something else to do.

Quoting Bob Loveless doesn't make stupid choices okay. I seriously doubt he would want to see his words used to justify stupid choices.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I feel it is necessary.

You say cleanup shouldn't be a problem. I'm going to tell you straight up you don't have a clue. Cleanup is a friggin nightmare. If you're doing it right, you'll spend more time wearing the respirator pushing the HEPA vacuum cleaner than you will spend with the respirator on making the knives. I'm willing to bet my last dollar you won't be THAT serious about cleanup. Which means you'll do a half-assed wipe-down and think you're good, little realizing that the dust you made is accumulating on EVERY surface in your home.

I have a large two car garage with high cielings I work in. We use it to store TONS of stuff, plus two cars, plus my tools. I do most of my grinding and sanding outside, and when working in the garage both garage doors are usually open. The only thing I do in the enclosed garage is filing and drilling. And still there is a layer of dust on literally everything in that garage. I wipe my space down daily. I do my best to mitigate dust... but it simply refuses to be mitigated. And you're talking about doing the same thing in an apartment... where you live, eat and sleep. My garage may be dusty, but I don't live there, and I do wear a respirator most of the time I am in the garage.

Will you be wearing a respirator in bed? When watching TV? Kinda hard to wear one while you eat.

That's why I say you need to take this seriously. You just don't know enough about the dust you're creating to know how big this problem is.
 
If you are going to work in your living space, be careful. In this case that means don't make small dust. Saw, file, carve as you wish, but save the sanding and the grinding for outside. Big particles are much easier to clean up and much less likely to float around and get in your lungs. Do some research on your materials and don't work with dangerous ones in the house. Maple burl and cocobolo are both pretty handle materials, but almost nobody is allergic to maple...
 
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