Rough Rider & Related Slipjoints
- Thread starter dalee100
- Start date
i have about 30 RR knives. started buying them about 1 1/2 years ago.
what i have noticed is that quality has improved over this time.
also there is huge variety, maybe different "lines", some better than others.
the "Long Rifle" ones are particularly nice.
Anthony, i wonder if you tried giving out a few of the Long Rifle ones, if your friends might not find that these stand up to hard use.
i have been using a Steel Warrior 2 blade "copperlock" (2nd is a wharnie) for over a year, most days, outside landscaping type jobs and it works just as well today as when i first started using it. i bought a couple more too, one in "candy apple red"(my term), very attractive. i would recommend this one to even a serious knifeknut.
so, i do have some RR and some ST.W. which compare favorably to current Case, of which i also have a fair collection.
roland
what i have noticed is that quality has improved over this time.
also there is huge variety, maybe different "lines", some better than others.
the "Long Rifle" ones are particularly nice.
Anthony, i wonder if you tried giving out a few of the Long Rifle ones, if your friends might not find that these stand up to hard use.
i have been using a Steel Warrior 2 blade "copperlock" (2nd is a wharnie) for over a year, most days, outside landscaping type jobs and it works just as well today as when i first started using it. i bought a couple more too, one in "candy apple red"(my term), very attractive. i would recommend this one to even a serious knifeknut.
so, i do have some RR and some ST.W. which compare favorably to current Case, of which i also have a fair collection.
roland
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Roland,
Steel Warriors were actually the brand I had purchased. But, admittedly you may have hit on an important point that I have not taken into consideration until now. The SW's that I purchased had just come out and it was in late 2004 as I recall, so perhaps this latest generation 4 years later display improvements that have evolved over this time making them a better crafted pocket knife? I suppose this is quite plausible. If a company(any company) and they're craftsman do something long enough and strive for improvments, they are bound to do it better over time.
Perhaps I will take a closer look.
Thanks,
Anthony
Steel Warriors were actually the brand I had purchased. But, admittedly you may have hit on an important point that I have not taken into consideration until now. The SW's that I purchased had just come out and it was in late 2004 as I recall, so perhaps this latest generation 4 years later display improvements that have evolved over this time making them a better crafted pocket knife? I suppose this is quite plausible. If a company(any company) and they're craftsman do something long enough and strive for improvments, they are bound to do it better over time.
Perhaps I will take a closer look.
Thanks,
Anthony
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With this thread making its way to the top, I should probably clear up my post on the previous page.
When I said I was impressed with the RR offerings, I meant I was impressed with what you get for $10. Overall they are decent $10 knives. If you look at the pics I posted you can see that once they are put together, they are finished with a belt sander from end to end. the bolsters and slabs show the same finish along the edges.
The Canoe I posted does have even grinds and slabs fit nicely but the half stops are sloppy at best.
The Tiny Trapper has some nice spring tension and the half stops are square and talk. Very nice. Unfortunately, the grinds are sub par.
These are the only RR knives I have used. Both have their good points and both have bad points.
For example. The Canoe has tortise shell scales that you can see through. The machine work under the scales is visible and rough. The fluting on the bolsters is obviously stamped. Three of the four run from top to bottom. One of them stopps short. See below.
As for the Tiny Trapper. This one was more impressive in fit and finish and walk and talk than the Canoe. It actually had a nice, smooth walk with a pronounced "snap" at the half stop, open and close.
The grinds is where this one fell short. The spey blade had a definate flaw. It looks as though whoever finished this blade got a bit heavy handed. There is a definate over working/ over heating of the edge right at the belly. From one side you can see a discoloration. From the other, a rolled foil edge that ruins it. See below:
To simplify my opinion of RR knives:
Will I buy more in the future?
No. Sorry. I'd rather have an Imperial Frontier or a second had US made Old Timer.
Would I recommed a RR to someone?
Yes. But only if they were on a budget and $10 was all they had to spend on a folder and they were not knife knuts. I'd probably have them look at a Mora first. But if they had their heart set on a slipjoint, I might have them look at Rough Riders.
Best wishes to the RR fans out there.
Chris
When I said I was impressed with the RR offerings, I meant I was impressed with what you get for $10. Overall they are decent $10 knives. If you look at the pics I posted you can see that once they are put together, they are finished with a belt sander from end to end. the bolsters and slabs show the same finish along the edges.
The Canoe I posted does have even grinds and slabs fit nicely but the half stops are sloppy at best.
The Tiny Trapper has some nice spring tension and the half stops are square and talk. Very nice. Unfortunately, the grinds are sub par.
These are the only RR knives I have used. Both have their good points and both have bad points.
For example. The Canoe has tortise shell scales that you can see through. The machine work under the scales is visible and rough. The fluting on the bolsters is obviously stamped. Three of the four run from top to bottom. One of them stopps short. See below.
As for the Tiny Trapper. This one was more impressive in fit and finish and walk and talk than the Canoe. It actually had a nice, smooth walk with a pronounced "snap" at the half stop, open and close.
The grinds is where this one fell short. The spey blade had a definate flaw. It looks as though whoever finished this blade got a bit heavy handed. There is a definate over working/ over heating of the edge right at the belly. From one side you can see a discoloration. From the other, a rolled foil edge that ruins it. See below:
To simplify my opinion of RR knives:
Will I buy more in the future?
No. Sorry. I'd rather have an Imperial Frontier or a second had US made Old Timer.
Would I recommed a RR to someone?
Yes. But only if they were on a budget and $10 was all they had to spend on a folder and they were not knife knuts. I'd probably have them look at a Mora first. But if they had their heart set on a slipjoint, I might have them look at Rough Riders.
Best wishes to the RR fans out there.
Chris
Hi,
This thread has been fascinating to watch. Everyone has just a bit different view of this "class" of slippies.
Rupestris, I do have to agree with you on the translucent scales. I've got a Sowbelly with horn scales and you can see frame right through them. Not very attractive. A better maker would have either covered that up or done a better polishing job on the visible frame. I don't think I would buy any of the translucent types.
Of the half-dozen or RR's I own, they all show excellent polish on the blades and bolsters. And the edges are very well formed and shaving sharp out of the box. I didn't think RR did half-stops. My little Butterbean pictured back at the beginning, has a "hitch" on opening the main blade. But I thought that was just a less than smooth radius on the tang.
Still, I like them and will get a few more. Even with the variable quality they are generally well made and are pretty good users. They provide inexpensive users to those people who just want a pocket knife to use occasionally. I still carry and use the green Mini-Trapper and the Butterbean. Heck, they can even provide the opportunity for those of us are into better made knives to try a new pattern cheaply. Before going out and spending 3 or 4 times, (or more), the money on a more desirable name. That little RR Butterbean got me to buy 2 Case Butterbeans and a Canoe. And I'll get a Case or Boker Mini-Trapper eventually.
dalee
This thread has been fascinating to watch. Everyone has just a bit different view of this "class" of slippies.
Rupestris, I do have to agree with you on the translucent scales. I've got a Sowbelly with horn scales and you can see frame right through them. Not very attractive. A better maker would have either covered that up or done a better polishing job on the visible frame. I don't think I would buy any of the translucent types.
Of the half-dozen or RR's I own, they all show excellent polish on the blades and bolsters. And the edges are very well formed and shaving sharp out of the box. I didn't think RR did half-stops. My little Butterbean pictured back at the beginning, has a "hitch" on opening the main blade. But I thought that was just a less than smooth radius on the tang.
Still, I like them and will get a few more. Even with the variable quality they are generally well made and are pretty good users. They provide inexpensive users to those people who just want a pocket knife to use occasionally. I still carry and use the green Mini-Trapper and the Butterbean. Heck, they can even provide the opportunity for those of us are into better made knives to try a new pattern cheaply. Before going out and spending 3 or 4 times, (or more), the money on a more desirable name. That little RR Butterbean got me to buy 2 Case Butterbeans and a Canoe. And I'll get a Case or Boker Mini-Trapper eventually.
dalee
Will Power
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As most people have noted, RR is good value for money & a very good way of acquiring patterns you are not sure of before getting a more lavish example.
I came across an interesting RR pattern called Mariner's knife, about 3.75" with an anchor as shield,jigged or smooth bone, Spear blade and Marlin spike. What were these spikes used for?? I've seen them on British Army WW1 knives for trench troops as well.
I came across an interesting RR pattern called Mariner's knife, about 3.75" with an anchor as shield,jigged or smooth bone, Spear blade and Marlin spike. What were these spikes used for?? I've seen them on British Army WW1 knives for trench troops as well.
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They are to aid in the untying of tight knots and in the splicing of lines.
A Marlin Spike is for opening shackles and for undoing knots.
A shackle is used to join a rope to a metal loop attached to the boat.
A shackle is a U with a bolt to close it at the top. The bolt has an eye, which is opened with a Marlin Spike
A Marlin Spike is often a seperate tool from a sailors sheath knife and is in the same sheath with its own loop.
The British Army clasp knife has a Marlin Spike.
It is great as a general pry
And punching holes in cans of condensed milk to drink in your tea
Do not confuse the Lee Enfield Mk 4 Spike bayonet with a marlin spike. The shape of the bayonet is very similar to a marlin spike
A shackle is used to join a rope to a metal loop attached to the boat.
A shackle is a U with a bolt to close it at the top. The bolt has an eye, which is opened with a Marlin Spike
A Marlin Spike is often a seperate tool from a sailors sheath knife and is in the same sheath with its own loop.
The British Army clasp knife has a Marlin Spike.
It is great as a general pry
And punching holes in cans of condensed milk to drink in your tea
Do not confuse the Lee Enfield Mk 4 Spike bayonet with a marlin spike. The shape of the bayonet is very similar to a marlin spike
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Anthony,
A closer look?
The sawcut bone with scallopped bolsters seem to be a consistantly good series with excellent F&F.
I have purchased 6 and have given 5 as gifts to non-knife folk.
I have one remaining, a stockman that I use fairly often, it holds a good edge. I have not worked it hard.
How both the RR and the Case will be in 10 years time, I place my money on the Case, but how they look now...
A peanut
No this is not a RR!!! Guess
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While they're decent for $10, that's about all I'd pay for one. Why?
Neither of the 2 I've bought has been completely ready to go right out of the box. On the Elephant Toenail, it bled dye for about 5 minutes under hot water. The nail nicks needed work with a Dremel cutoff wheel to get them deep enough to use. Topping it off, once I had those right, the main pivot loosened immediately. It didn't take long to fix, but I've never had another knife loosen that quickly.
For the Camper/Scout I bought as a cheap travel knife, the Dremel had to come out again for the same reason. The blade is ground very poorly, and the screwdriver is drawn so thin as to make me concerned as to its durability. Additionally, I had to flatten the screwdriver tip out of the box- it was nowhere near square.
I have 2. I like the designs, and would love to find the large locking whittler from a reputable maker, but 2 is far more than enough.
Neither of the 2 I've bought has been completely ready to go right out of the box. On the Elephant Toenail, it bled dye for about 5 minutes under hot water. The nail nicks needed work with a Dremel cutoff wheel to get them deep enough to use. Topping it off, once I had those right, the main pivot loosened immediately. It didn't take long to fix, but I've never had another knife loosen that quickly.
For the Camper/Scout I bought as a cheap travel knife, the Dremel had to come out again for the same reason. The blade is ground very poorly, and the screwdriver is drawn so thin as to make me concerned as to its durability. Additionally, I had to flatten the screwdriver tip out of the box- it was nowhere near square.
I have 2. I like the designs, and would love to find the large locking whittler from a reputable maker, but 2 is far more than enough.
I have a collection of Riggers' knives(aka Marlin Spike): Camillus, Schrade-Walden, British, and German ones too.
a few months ago i saw a RR Riggers' knife in jigged bone on ebay. i bought it.
it is a great knife, so i bought another. they are very solid, and like pretty well every RR, sharp.
i'm not trying to promote these knives. i just love knives, all kinds, esp. if well made, and i'm just stating my experience, just like i did awhile back, stating how all Queen knives are dull or even blunt.
roland
a few months ago i saw a RR Riggers' knife in jigged bone on ebay. i bought it.
it is a great knife, so i bought another. they are very solid, and like pretty well every RR, sharp.
i'm not trying to promote these knives. i just love knives, all kinds, esp. if well made, and i'm just stating my experience, just like i did awhile back, stating how all Queen knives are dull or even blunt.
roland
Hi all, I have purchased about 100 RR knives over the past year. I do leather work, sheaths, bags, belts etc and do most of my cutting with a RR knife. The Barlow is a very solid knife that cuts 10 oz shoulders right through with no problem. The other I have used in lots of heavy work is the micarta sowbelly stockman. I have found a few knives in the 100 that have had problems, a whittler backspring snapped and had an obvious internal flaw. The bark pearl peanut has one scale at least 1/3rd thicker than the other, the buffalo is way too thin IMO and cracks easily. I like the gunstock series anf find the fit and finish pretty amazing for a cheap knife. Have had 2 or three with soft snap. I don't like the thickness on the swell centre whittlers backsprings .
I sell Vintage slipjoints, mainly solid cells but lots of old bone as well, for the most part American made. The RR have attracted a lot of interest and I have sold many more vintage knives because of carrying the RR as introduction slippies.
Regards to all
Robin
I sell Vintage slipjoints, mainly solid cells but lots of old bone as well, for the most part American made. The RR have attracted a lot of interest and I have sold many more vintage knives because of carrying the RR as introduction slippies.
Regards to all
Robin
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Hello Robin,
In my initial post here I described briefly the experience's I had early on with these Chinese produced pocket knives. My problems with them were not unlike the failings you have described, plus other troubles while in a construction environment with every day use. Admittedly, mine were of the first generation Steel Warriors and were not the Rough Riders.
My question to you is, since you have purchased so many RR's and use them. Have you also had an occasion to use the SW's? And if so how would they compare to the Steel Warriors from a using standpoint?
Hi Sunnyd
No I haven't tried the steel warriors but have tried a couple of other brands made in China, the US classics and a couple of "ragin bulls". The US Classics is an OK seahorse whittler, the big sheepsfoot blade is hefty and has great snap, the second blade is softer but still not bad, the white bone scales have warped and lifted almost off the front pin. The ragin bull has blade movement and the blades are thin and one is crinked so radically that I would call it Bent.
The reason I even tried RR knive was based on a pretty positive article in Knife mag. I bought 3 and tried them out on my workbench. I find the heavier blades can cut a LOT more if you fine up the edge a bit. All that said, I have seen knives from Case that had some problems as well and with so many being "collected not used" I wonder if some of then hold up (just a thought as I don't have enough to test). I have one case peanut that has an amazing twist that when looking along the backsprings almost makes you seasick.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the RR knives and in my experience they have really gotten people interested in slipjoints and all the wonderful patterns as well as other better brands. The fixed blade drop point hunter is really an OK hunter. The long rifle fixed blade skinner and caper combo has great shaped blades but the handles REALLY do suck so I ripped them off and rehandled with 10oz tooled leather and matched them with new tooled sheaths (the sheath sucked too)).
Regards
Robin
No I haven't tried the steel warriors but have tried a couple of other brands made in China, the US classics and a couple of "ragin bulls". The US Classics is an OK seahorse whittler, the big sheepsfoot blade is hefty and has great snap, the second blade is softer but still not bad, the white bone scales have warped and lifted almost off the front pin. The ragin bull has blade movement and the blades are thin and one is crinked so radically that I would call it Bent.
The reason I even tried RR knive was based on a pretty positive article in Knife mag. I bought 3 and tried them out on my workbench. I find the heavier blades can cut a LOT more if you fine up the edge a bit. All that said, I have seen knives from Case that had some problems as well and with so many being "collected not used" I wonder if some of then hold up (just a thought as I don't have enough to test). I have one case peanut that has an amazing twist that when looking along the backsprings almost makes you seasick.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the RR knives and in my experience they have really gotten people interested in slipjoints and all the wonderful patterns as well as other better brands. The fixed blade drop point hunter is really an OK hunter. The long rifle fixed blade skinner and caper combo has great shaped blades but the handles REALLY do suck so I ripped them off and rehandled with 10oz tooled leather and matched them with new tooled sheaths (the sheath sucked too)).
Regards
Robin
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Thanks Robin.
I would like to ask you, and anyone/everyone else, what model or pattern of Rough Rider would be the toughest user you all would suggest I purchase for an experiment that I am considering performing?
I may put my previous bad experiences aside to obtain one of these new generation Rough Riders and edc it for several months or until it fails(which ever comes first) and use it for my common every day chores including working, hunting and fishing, ect. I will conclude with an updated performance review thereafter.
So, can anyone suggest a tough pattern RR?. I like Trappers, Medium-Large Stockman and 3 blade Sowbelly's. I do need a pattern that has a spey blade though. At this point I hunt or fish nearly every day and the that fleshing blade gets a workout. But, I am willing to listen to any of the good folks advice here from their experiences with the RR brand as a user.
Thanks,
Anthony
I would like to ask you, and anyone/everyone else, what model or pattern of Rough Rider would be the toughest user you all would suggest I purchase for an experiment that I am considering performing?
I may put my previous bad experiences aside to obtain one of these new generation Rough Riders and edc it for several months or until it fails(which ever comes first) and use it for my common every day chores including working, hunting and fishing, ect. I will conclude with an updated performance review thereafter.
So, can anyone suggest a tough pattern RR?. I like Trappers, Medium-Large Stockman and 3 blade Sowbelly's. I do need a pattern that has a spey blade though. At this point I hunt or fish nearly every day and the that fleshing blade gets a workout. But, I am willing to listen to any of the good folks advice here from their experiences with the RR brand as a user.
Thanks,
Anthony
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SunnyD, Smoky Mountain Knife Works is just over the hill from me and I visit there often over the past few years . I have been thru the RRs and SWs and all the rest looking them over. They are all about the same. Some bigger and some smaller but essentially the same stuff. There have been no great strides in improvement that I could tell. Better than they were but it wouldn't take much to top that. That's my 2 cents rather than your 10 bucks.
Greg
Greg
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Greg,
Thanks, much obliged for that. You and I both know I value your excellent council and I am probably going to regret all the little voice's in my head and the good advice from a friend here. But, I am going to set aside my biases regarding my past experiences and some other feelings I have about these Chinese pocket knives at this time, and spend the $10. spot to perform this task. I just have to know for myself if four years from my last encounters with these pocket knives have evolved in the positive to any degree, or not.
Thanks,
Anthony