Rough Ryder Reserve: New Premium Rough Ryder Line

[Fisher1573]

I've been a bit disappointed with the quality control of one of my favorite knife brands in recent years, and would love to see more competition at that price point. With good fit and finish, and good steel, I'd buy from any company. I might forgive the lines in the bolsters, but the 'eyelash' nail nicks are too much.

 

[dsutton24]

Reproductions of reproductions? No thanks.

 

[GaiusJulius]

I don’t really understand Rough Rider. They are sold by an American company, presumably designed by an American “knife guy,” but their product always seems very Chinese. Like, they’re trying so hard to copy established brands, they are seemingly oblivious to the fact that the elements they choose just don’t blend well together.

They could have amazing knives. They could put Case out of business. Bump up the price by $2 per knife and their already pretty good QC and workmanship could be great. Make a range of traditional patterns done well, and they’d have the allegiance of many “knife guys” as well as all the guys just looking for a cheap knife to throw in the tackle box. As it is, almost every knife they make has some slight weirdness to the design or execution that keeps it in the “great knife —for $12— but I’ll keep buying Case/Queen/GEC” category.

That easy-open Jack is a neat knife. Make it with a clip and they could charge $25 more and they’d still fly off the shelves. As a one-arm? Solid meh.

 

[EngrSorenson]

I don't see any complaining when we compare Mora or Victorinox to American products or slam their steels when compared to US steels, why the super sensitivity to China? A little self guilt perhaps? There is no way to discuss a $50 knife, RR or otherwise, without some mention of it being a Chinese product, being a Chinese product is in itself enough to question a $50 price tag given their deplorable overall quality issues.

You’re missing the important difference. Victorinox or Mora are companies that use a steel which we can legitimately compare to GEC’s 1095. Saying a knife isn’t good because a guy in Switzerland made it isn’t legitimate. No problem saying Rough Rider steel isn’t good if that’s what you think. The fact that it is produced by someone of Chinese nationality has no bearing on the quality of knife being produced, unless you think citizens of China are somehow innately incapable of doing the same work as a citizen of the United States.

Describing this as “super sensitivity” is inflammatory, but it demonstrates you don’t understand that “Made in the China” isn’t a statement of quality; it’s a statement of origin.

I rebuke you for surmising that I have “A little self guilt perhaps?”. I have no problem dividing $50 among SMKW, some long shoremen, a boat crew and some folks in China. With a clear conscience I give my money to who I want to. Sir, you can take that comment and take a hike.

You can take it up with a moderator if you need further clarification. I might suggest @Peregrin.

 

[joeradza]

EngrSorenson
Well said.

 

[LastRodeo]

I don’t really understand Rough Rider. They are sold by an American company, presumably designed by an American “knife guy,” but their product always seems very Chinese. Like, they’re trying so hard to copy established brands, they are seemingly oblivious to the fact that the elements they choose just don’t blend well together.

They could have amazing knives. They could put Case out of business. Bump up the price by $2 per knife and their already pretty good QC and workmanship could be great. Make a range of traditional patterns done well, and they’d have the allegiance of many “knife guys” as well as all the guys just looking for a cheap knife to throw in the tackle box. As it is, almost every knife they make has some slight weirdness to the design or execution that keeps it in the “great knife —for $12— but I’ll keep buying Case/Queen/GEC” category.

That easy-open Jack is a neat knife. Make it with a clip and they could charge $25 more and they’d still fly off the shelves. As a one-arm? Solid meh.

I think SMKW is intentionally not trying to make a cheaper Case or put Case out of business. They sell knives, they want to sell Case knives and they want to sell RR knives. They don’t want a product that will mirror another product and undercut it on price. The higher price product will lose every time, unless the customer is willing to buy the higher price product solely on another factor, such as country of origin.

 

[JohnDF]

I think SMKW is intentionally not trying to make a cheaper Case or put Case out of business. They sell knives, they want to sell Case knives and they want to sell RR knives.

Very good point!!!

 

[EngrSorenson]

I think SMKW is intentionally not trying to make a cheaper Case or put Case out of business. They sell knives, they want to sell Case knives and they want to sell RR knives. They don’t want a product that will mirror another product and undercut it on price. The higher price product will lose every time, unless the customer is willing to buy the higher price product solely on another factor, such as country of origin.

That might explain why none of the current RRR knives resemble any Case I've ever seen. If that's true, then we might predict that RRR knives will always be different than Case offerings. I think that would be a good thing. I like variety.

Did anyone notice that the "Kayak" has a liner between primary and secondary? Is it just me, or is that unusual for Canoe type patterns? The more I look at it, the more I like it. the weird pointy blades are growing on me. It's like a utility knife and a traditional knife had a baby. I could see me using that. I like the scale colors.

 

[JohnDF]

Just make that main blade a fat spear and I'd try one.

 

[afishhunter]

Did anyone notice that the "Kayak" has a liner between primary and secondary? Is it just me, or is that unusual for Canoe type patterns? .

I have the three canoe pattern knives I have with me, on my desk as I type this:
Offshore Buck 389;
Rough Rider RR1062 "A Stroke of Luck" series.;
(I have other Rough Rider canoes, however, they are not with me. The construction/layout is the same on all of them.)
Circa 2000 most probably Camillus manufactured "Remington".

The "Remington"/Camillus is irrelevant to the question, as it is a two blade single spring knife.

The Buck and Rough Rider are both two blades with two springs.

To answer your question:
Neither has a liner, or spacer, between the blades or backsprings.

My guess and in my opinion only, based only on my experience with these two brands with twin backsprings, is: "It is unusual to have a liner/spacer between the blades on the canoe pattern."

Not with me, I also have a (Taylor Brands) Hammer Brand 4 blade, two backspring "gun boat" canoe whittler.
I don't remember it having a liner between the blades, however I don't remember if there is a spacer between the backsprings. I think there is, but I cannot swear to it. (all my 3 and other 4 blade 2 backspring knives has a spacer between the springs.)

 

[Eli Chaps]

Nope.

 

[EngrSorenson]

My guess and in my opinion only based only on my experience with these two brands with twin backsprings, is: "It is unusual to have a liner/spacer between the blades on the canoe pattern."

Yeah, my Dad's "old" (circa 90's, or early 2000's) stag canoe doesn't have a liner between the blades. I think after my investigation of baby butterbeans I can safely say I've not seen a liner there either.

I'm used to liners between blades on jack knives- makes sense- the blades are opening right next to one another. on opposite ended knives I'm not sure I've seen that. Case in point (pun very much intended), I'm carrying my Dad's "old" 1995 Case serpentine congress today, and there's no liners between the 4 springs.

Add that to the list of unusual features of these knew RR Reserve knives. Not a bad thing, but definitely a departure from what I'm used to.

 

[mnblade]

... it looks like the series is already abandoned and no new models with better design coming.

Already abandoned? Where'd you hear this?

I don’t really understand Rough Rider. They are sold by an American company, presumably designed by an American “knife guy,” but their product always seems very Chinese. Like, they’re trying so hard to copy established brands, they are seemingly oblivious to the fact that the elements they choose just don’t blend well together.

They could have amazing knives. ... As it is, almost every knife they make has some slight weirdness to the design or execution that keeps it in the “great knife —for $12— but I’ll keep buying Case/Queen/GEC” category.

^ This!

I've never even been tempted to buy a traditional from RR. On one hand, I'll admit it: I'm a bit put off by the notion of traditional pocketknives being made where RR are made. On the other hand, though, I could see myself buying one of Buck's slipjoints that are made over there.

For me, the problem with RR is that, aesthetically speaking, their designs are horrendous! There's no bell or whistle they won't cram onto a knife. Here's an analogy: My wife's closet. She can get dressed up for work or an evening out, and look sharp as a damn razor! When my daughters were little, they'd go into that same closet full of clothes to play "dress up." Red shoes, a pink dress, brown sweater, green scarf, four necklaces, big sunglasses, three bracelets on each wrist, and then a maybe a trip to the bathroom for a clumsy smear of lipstick all over their faces. As far as I can tell, THAT is the approach of RR's "designer." It's like he grew up thinking gas station knives were the pinnacle of pocketknife design!

-- Mark

 

[Ramrodmb]

At first I thought that was quite ironic, but I now wonder if an EO notch, and not too strong a back spring, could actually lend itself to one-handed opening. I could imagine trying to grasp the blade at the EO notch between index and middle finger, placing thumb and ring finger on the sides of the EO notch and pushing the handle down with thumb/ringfinger while pulling blade up (or just holding it steady) with knuckles of index/middle finger; if you could get some separation between handle and blade, you could "hook" handle on pocket or table to pull blade fully open (although you'd end up holding the open knife by the blade rather than by handle, but you could then "flip to switch grip").

I think I personally would try a slightly different technique, grabbing blade with thumb and index finger, and pushing handle away with middle finger on one side of EO notch until I got adequate separation to hook handle on something and open fully.

Try it! Knife tricks are fun!!

- GT

Hey Gary. How you been my friend?
Knife tricks are fun but wouldn't it be easier (and safer) to use the hook on the end of the blade, as designed??

 

[EngrSorenson]

On one hand, I'll admit it: I'm a bit put off by the notion of traditional pocketknives being made where RR are made. On the other hand, though, I could see myself buying one of Buck's slipjoints that are made over there.

... It's like he grew up thinking gas station knives were the pinnacle of pocketknife design!

If you're put off by RR and not by offshore Bucks I think that might mean you might have a branding or product level qualm. I don't particularly like the name "Rough Ryder", as it sounds pretty "on the nose", kind of like "Cold Steel" or some other appeal to masculinity... not to mention the "y" in "Ryder" which never sits well with me. I also think that Buck products are a little more up the middle. My Great Uncle loves his off shore "lancer" model, and I can see why- everything about it reminds him of a domestic knife.

RR offers a few knives that I think are pretty neat which aren't too "off the wall", such as the sowbelly trapper, the barlow, the canoe, the work knife, most of their stockman knives and their copperheads.

There is definitely something to a brand name for me though.
One of these responses is not like the other: see if you can tell which!

"Hey Dan, whatcha got there?"

• "Oh this is my Great Eastern Cutlery Barlow"
  
• "Oh this is my Queen Cutlery #48"
• "Oh this is my Opinel No. 8"
• "This? This is my Rrrrrrrrough Rrrrrrrryder! yeeeee haw!"
  *gallops away on a hobby horse*

... still for $15 I don't care that much. For a nice enough knife at $50 I'll just call it a "Triple R". Or really, adding "Reserve" to it really does make it sound a little classier.

 

[GE Jr]

I suspect that the lanyard tube on the razor knife is set close to the end to max blade accommodation when closed.

None of these 3 knives are speaking to me. The single bladed jack comes closest, but I'd like a different blade (though the razor loses the gaudy match strike pull). Also don't really care for micarta covers on traditionals...but I realize many do like them. The D2 steel is a plus, so I'll just wait and see what knives are yet to come.

 

[LastRodeo]

I suspect that the lanyard tube on the razor knife is set close to the end to max blade accommodation when closed.

None of these 3 knives are speaking to me. The single bladed jack comes closest, but I'd like a different blade (though the razor loses the gaudy match strike pull). Also don't really care for micarta covers on traditionals...but I realize many do like them. The D2 steel is a plus, so I'll just wait and see what knives are yet to come.

I see alot of elements, specifically the ones you mention, that seem to appeal to a segment that is starting to look at traditional knives, that have been into modern knives previously. A perceived higher end steel, micarta, tanto blades, one hand opening...

 

[mnblade]

If you're put off by RR and not by offshore Bucks I think that might mean you might have a branding or product level qualm.

Nope. For me, the problem with RR is that, aesthetically speaking, their designs are horrendous! Sure, there are a few RRs that don't make me gag, but I won't reward them with my dollars because of those 98% that do. As a forum-dwelling knife knerd, I have to look at those!

I also think that Buck products are a little more up the middle. My Great Uncle loves his off shore "lancer" model, and I can see why- everything about it reminds him of a domestic knife.

Yep.

-- Mark

 

[EngrSorenson]

I see alot of elements, specifically the ones you mention, that seem to appeal to a segment that is starting to look at traditional knives, that have been into modern knives previously. A perceived higher end steel, micarta, tanto blades, one hand opening...

I wonder how much of that is just an appeal to modern people in general, though. I don't flinch at micarta on a traditional folder; it's a superior material than bone or wood for purely practical durability and quality control reasons. D2's been a knife steel since ~1965 and it has some superlative qualities while not being the latest and greatest steel with a finicky heat treat. One arm blades have been around since ~1865 and existed for practical purposes. I'm guessing the EO notch is there for folks who want to pinch the blade open when they have both hands free.

They call those reverse tantos, but one has a small belly which doesn't feel like a reverse tanto to me. the whole idea of a "reverse tanto" is odd to me- really a "reverse tanto" is one rounded corner away from being a more familiar wharncliffe/sheepsfoot.

I'm sure I'm not mentioning anything you don't already know, but for the sake of discussion- I think there's nothing about these knives that feel like they're made for a "modern knife crowd", I think they're directed at a "modern crowd". If I needed one knife I could use for the rest of my life, I'd probably get one in micarta and D2 steel, and I'm sure it'd be pretty dependable.

Nope. For me, the problem with RR is that, aesthetically speaking, their designs are horrendous!

Yeah- that's what I mean about "product level qualm". You mentioned being put off by where it's made, but based on what you've said I was guessing that was the real issue.

 

[LastRodeo]

I wonder how much of that is just an appeal to modern people in general, though. I don't flinch at micarta on a traditional folder; it's a superior material than bone or wood for purely practical durability and quality control reasons. D2's been a knife steel since ~1965 and it has some superlative qualities while not being the latest and greatest steel with a finicky heat treat. One arm blades have been around since ~1865 and existed for practical purposes. I'm guessing the EO notch is there for folks who want to pinch the blade open when they have both hands free.

They call those reverse tantos, but one has a small belly which doesn't feel like a reverse tanto to me. the whole idea of a "reverse tanto" is odd to me- really a "reverse tanto" is one rounded corner away from being a more familiar wharncliffe/sheepsfoot.

I'm sure I'm not mentioning anything you don't already know, but for the sake of discussion- I think there's nothing about these knives that feel like they're made for a "modern knife crowd", I think they're directed at a "modern crowd". If I needed one knife I could use for the rest of my life, I'd probably get one in micarta and D2 steel, and I'm sure it'd be pretty dependable.



Yeah- that's what I mean about "product level qualm". You mentioned being put off by where it's made, but based on what you've said I was guessing that was the real issue.

I agree, its is all perception. My first GEC was a #42 lockback, micarta, 440c. Since I had been using and collecting modern OHO knives for awhile, I thought the GEC that would fit my preferences, needed to be big, stainless steel and micarta (since I was used to G10 and Micarta handled modern knives). As time past, I have found that none of those qualities are what I prefer in a traditional knife.