Rumor of happenings between Ontario and RAT Cutlery

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Tzvi said:
"Lt. Col. David G. Johnson, the command spokesman, said that while there were no reports of ammunition misfiring, some of it was in such poor condition that the military had decided not to issue it."

"soon after arriving there, the cardboard boxes had split open and their contents spilled out, revealing ammunition manufactured in China in 1966.

“This is what they give us for the fighting,” said the colonel, Amanuddin, who like many Afghans has only one name. “It makes us worried, because too much of it is junk.” Ammunition as it ages over decades often becomes less powerful, reliable and accurate."



Corrosive primed Chicom Ammo ( factories supplied by Russia) is likely the least of the problems...it will go bang every time ( ok no ammo does and I've had wincher sqibs!)...

His main problem was not repackaging and retesting the ammo.

Most older ammo get HOTTER because the gun-power breaks up and becomes even faster burning...that is one LIE in this article from a ignorant yank Col.

No reports of misfires(at least with one lot) shows the ammo was OK, packaging should have been up to NATO spec.

And of course the CHINA issue...sorry this stuff was in ALBANIAN hands for 30-40 years....should have been destroyed, but was sold instead and the US...

a Young idiot contractor, set himself up for the wolves...even with ok ammo.
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Even edited??? WTF?

Are you sure you are speaking RAT?

Take the blue pill! :D
 
Not a big deal on this. What was posted was a story from the NY Times that's several weeks old. I think I understand the relative nature of the post by Tzvi, so it's all good.
 
I hope my post was read with humor and sarcasm, not insult...:D

I tought the unconnected rambling was funny.

I think I may just start posting free-writing style sometime in the future. I'll just start writing and hamburgers are good if there is enough gas in the grill. My nose itches. Ohh, sausages! 1800petmeds, gotta try that sometime. I wonder if it will rain today. I need to get up.

Anyway, RAT Cutlery rocks!
 
cmdr249 said:
I'll just start writing and hamburgers are good if there is enough gas in the grill. My nose itches. Ohh, sausages! 1800petmeds, gotta try that sometime. I wonder if it will rain today. I need to get up.

Anyway, RAT Cutlery rocks!
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:thumbup: Just found this, gotta show it to my wife. I do that to her in conversation sometimes. If the timing and mood are right, we'll be laughing so hard we're in tears.

What's really funny, is sometimes my son talks in his sleep, and it sounds just like that.

Jeff - any news on the whole issue with Ontario? I did a quick search, and didn't see anything. Is it settled, or did I miss anything?

thx - cpr
 
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orca8589 said:
:

Jeff - any news on the whole issue with Ontario? I did a quick search, and didn't see anything. Is it settled, or did I miss anything?

thx - cpr
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We have gotten a lot of emails asking the same questions. Here are some links to the latest public information available. Be sure you click on the links and read the prosecution history at the bottom of each page:

http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91184882&pty=OPP
http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=77408973&pty=EXT
http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=91184935&pty=OPP

In short, Ontario's response to our opposition (dated August 6th) accuses me of having "unclean hands" (basically meaning I'm the unethical bad guy) and are also claiming that we have transferred ownership of the marks, which we have NEVER done. They also conveniently keep failing to mention that the contract between us and them is over with.
 
Thanks, Jeff. Good to know - you guys stick with it and keep up the good fight. Don't let 'em rest.

Here at BF, You got the ugliest, meanest bunch of cheerleaders ever, rootin' for R.A.T.! ;)

thx - cpr
 
After hearing this stuff, it just confirms that I will never deal with this company.
 
Jeff,

After looking at the links, it appears that Jerry Busse is also fighting against Ontario's attempted trademark name grab... my feeble brain can barely understand most of this legalise mumbo-jumbo, my question is how does Busse Knife fit into all this?

Also I know you've been asked a million times, but when are we going to see the RC5 Sere hitting dealers stock shelves?

Thx!
/dusty
 
Jeff, don't let their BS get you down, we are all behind you.
And our impatience over knife releases is just a testament to our love of your blades!
 
Again, we appreciate the support. We've got a great attorney and we have undeniable evidence on our side when it comes to us having the mark(s) way before the Ontario contract. I just don't see us losing this, as long as a court looks at it with objectivity and bases their ruling on the facts. As far as Busse goes, I can only assume their concern may be over the SwampRat name.
 
Ahhhhhhh... it certainly make sense that Busse would want to protect thier product names too. Thanks for taking the time to post a reply to my question and know that wheel of justice grinds painfully slow... but justice will be achieved in the end. I'm not sure what we forumites can do other than give our moral support, but please don't hesitate to call on us if you need us.

Thx,
/dusty

ps. If you need a "beta tester" for any of the new RAT products before they are released to the masses, I volunteer!
 
We have a call in with Jerry Busse now since we need to discuss this issue with him but he hasn't returned our call.
 
R.A.T. said:
Again, we appreciate the support. We've got a great attorney and we have undeniable evidence on our side when it comes to us having the mark(s) way before the Ontario contract. I just don't see us losing this, as long as a court looks at it with objectivity and bases their ruling on the facts. As far as Busse goes, I can only assume their concern may be over the SwampRat name.
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Jeff -- I started reading this thread at the beginning and had to skip to the end. I'm glad you have an attorney. You need solid legal representation on this complex. Clearly, you own all the intellectual property rights in the RAT name and the knife designs. Ontario manufactured your products under license and that license ended a year ago! So I was wondering why are they continuing to manufacture your designs and use your trade marks when their license ended. :confused: If anyone should be sued it should be Ontario Knife for infringement of YOUR trademarks. Busse doesn't have anything to worry about since you are not threatening them for infringment of your marks.
 
BlueOrca said:
Busse doesn't have anything to worry about since you are not threatening them for infringment of your marks.
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But their are some issues that we need to discuss due to some filings we are having to make with the PTO. I've got a call and a couple of emails in with Jerry so I'm sure we'll hook up before too long. It's all good though. Wished there were more American made companies like the Busse knife companies out there! ;)
 
R.A.T. said:
Well, Nick Trbovich Jr., CEO of Ontario just called me right after I posted this. They do have letters headed our way from their attorneys. What Nick told me on the phone is he wanted us to quit using the name RAT Cutlery and basically design for them since they had "so much time" invested in us. I thought we were going to be able to reach an agreement on the phone without having lawyers get involved but when he said we had to quit using the name RAT Cutlery, I told him no way. We have been known as RAT since our beginnings in 1997. I asked him how he felt going after a small company like this and he told me that he had to worry about his stock holders and employees. I'm pissed right now. I friggin' can't believe that a huge company like Ontario is going to sue a little piss-ant company like RAT Cutlery just when it's getting started. There is no way RAT Cutlery has the funding to defend against a long, drawn-out court battle such as this may be. Nick knows that and knows he can crush us with such frivolous suits.
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Not taking sides, yet (But if I were, it would likely be with the underdog). Just want some information. Do you guys at RAT make the RAT knives for Ontario, or did you guys design it, and they make them? Or did you once make them, but now they make them? Please fill me in on your past and current connection with Ontario Knives. I'm new to this situation. Thank you.
 
RAT Knives History





Randall's Adventure & Training (RAT) has been designing, marketing and and selling survival and military styled knives since 1997. One of their first designs was the RTAK which was built for them by Newt Livesay's Wicked Knife Company long before Ontario Knife Company produced the design. In fact, Ontario Knife Company used a Newt Livesay knife to build the first Ontario prototype. Read about the RTAK here: Page 1 and page 2. We also produced and sold the RAT skinning / survival knife made by John Greco (read TK article), and the RAT Laser Strike knife made by TOPS. The RAT Laser Strike was the cover story of the September 2001 issue of Tactical Knives magazine. You can also read about the initial design phases and see a prototype of the RAT Laser Strike project in the October 2000 issue of American Survival Guide magazine.

RAT owns the following knife designs / names: the RAT skinner, RAT Laser Strike, RTAK, RTAK II, TAK, RAT-7, RAT-5, RAT-3, Model 1 (Folder), RC-3, RC-4, RC-6, and the sheath systems for the RC-3, RC-4 and RC-6.

RAT owned designs and the manufacturers who built them (historical information only):

RTAK: Newt Livesay, Wicked Knife Company, Ontario Knife Co. (After April, 2002)
RAT Knife: Randall's Adventure & Training
RAT Knife: Greco Knives
RAT Laser Strike: TOPS Knives
Jungle Kit (Survival Kit): Randall's Adventure & Training
Mini Jungle Kit (Survival kit): Randall's Adventure & Training
Jungle Charger (Solar Charger): Randall's Adventure & Training
TAK: Ontario Knife Company
RAT-7: Ontario Knife Company
RAT-3: Ontario Knife Company
RTAK-II: Ontario Knife Company
Model 1 Folder: Paul Lin (Taiwan)
RC-3: RAT Cutlery Company
RC-4: RAT Cutlery Company
RC-6: RAT Cutlery Company
Izula: RAT Cutlery Company
RC-5 SERE: RAT Cutlery Company
RAT Survival / E&E Kit: Randall's Adventure and Training / RAT Cutlery Company

RAT only guarantees and offers customer service on knives built by RAT Cutlery Company (knives found on this web site) and does not guarantee or offer any customer service for knives that are manufactured by any other company, regardless of the misuse of our trademarks.



any other info has been posted in prior threads, Welcome the real hawkeye
 
Just to be clear, we're not looking for anyone to take sides. Second, cheering for the underdog is not the correct way to do anything. Always cheer for what's right, no matter who benefits.

We (RAT Cutlery) do our best to keep our customer base informed of whats going on within our company, after all it's the customers and users that keep RAT Cutlery alive and THEY are our first responsibility. RAT Cutlery is not just about bottom line profits (both Mike and I still work other jobs to feed our families). RAT Cutlery is about a concept that quality knives can be produced in the United States for reasonable prices and backed by absolute, 100 percent customer service, without excuses, without hype and without the BS that is often associated with selling and marketing of knives. We have been in this business a long time.

We will continue to keep our customer base informed as best we can. We will continue to go forward with new ideas when it comes to solid tools for survival, tactical and outdoor use. Whatever the eventual outcome of this whole mess is, it will be decided by the evidence, courts, judges and lawyers. We welcome our day in court and know we have rock-solid evidence that proves that we were using the RAT name on survival/hunting/tactical knives long before ANYONE in the same industry. We can easily prove interstate commerce that pre-dates anyone else's use of the name, and will.

Again, let the courts decide who is right and wrong, not a simple passionate thread on a forum ;) In the meantime, buy more knives, anyone's knives, and keep the knife economy strong :D
 
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