Ruptured Disk Realities OT

[munk]

Well, the MRI is done and I have a ruptured disk. I also have a nearly collapsed one- which is kind of odd. Has someone been collapsing my disks while I sleep? The broken disk is under lumbar number 3 or 4 I think; so it bears a lot of weight.

Anyway, it could of happened in the fiasco altercation I got myself involved in last year, or it could have been slinging one 50 pound boy too many over my shoulder on the way up to "Time out Land" in their rooms, or picking up one of those Honking big tree trunk chunks a couple years ago. Man, were they big. I could barely carrry one.

What's done is done. I road my Mt Bike last year without knowing this, and cut this Winter's wood too. This year, though, my leg began to hurt a lot. I got concerned when I was pissing and that made my back hurt..
Possible futures include nothing, surgery, or loss of functions- sexual, bowel, bladder, and leg. I'm going to stick it out until then under the philosophy that every time you go under the knife you take chances and lose a little. Ten days ago I could not pick up my 20 pound son, and to walk I had to use my hands to climb up my torso, straightening enough to totter around. This week is better as I saw a specialist last week and was put on stronger meds.

So, I'm curious. I know many of you must have had disk trouble by now. I'm just another aging American male with a bad back- take a number and join the line. Any advice or insight would be appreciated.

My wife is not thrilled. She see's this as just more opportunity for me to be grumpy. Her idea is to get an MRI on my upper back too- not without its own troubles, and then, in one spectacular day, have them drill a bunch of holes in me and fix everything. I dont think they work like that.

munk

 

[hollowdweller]

I injured my back playing frisbee on an asphalt parking lot after a Grateful Dead show. Jumping up to catch it and landing on my heels apparently either herniated or bulged a disc ( I never went for the MRI).

That was 95. My leg would spazz out so bad that I had to fall down. I kept straining my leg because my foot was so numb I couldn't tell how hard I was putting it down. I started getting back pain only after it started getting better. Originally it was all leg pain and foot numbness.

My friend told me that the least pressure on your discs are when you are walking, so I walk a lot. Get good shoes with good soles if you walk on pavement. My thin soled Birkenstocks aggravated it. Now I wear hiking boots.
I lost 60 lbs and that helped. I try to limit my driving and setting as much as I can with a computer terminal job.

It took about 5 years but now I seldom have a flare up. At first the problem was constant. Then if I sat or drove too much. Later on if I stretched like to reach up to get something off a shelf on my toes it would aggravate the sciatic nerve and wicked calf spasm Also setting against trees hunting used to mess with me, or sleeping in a tent. When I'd get up I'd have to fall back down Anymore it hardly ever gives me grief.

Unless your MD reccomends surgery I'd avoid it. Also avoid a lot of narcotics. Walk a lot. Lose weight if you are over. Don't set a lot. Best thing I found was plain aspirin and Valerian Root tea. Antispasmodic. Swimming is good too. You have to reevaluate the way you do things. I was doing a lot of stuff that hurt my back.

My friend who is a doctor has 2 herniated discs and never had a laminectomy. He says he's ok as long as he walks and avoids a lot of driving.

 

[munk]

Hollowdweller, I've said this before- but you and I have some things in common. Grateful Dead, eh? No one can prove I took all that acid, no one.... and those graphs showing average monthly use compiled over years- nonsense.

I do walk. I've had a bad back most my life with one thing or another. One point though- I don't know where your disk is ruptured, but if nerve damage results then it was not worth it. I like to keep my poop in until such time as I don't need it anymore.... and as for the sex thing...
My neighbor was jerked around by the Feds too long- now he has drop foot and a brace before they would operate on his Service connected injury.
Like I said- when I pissed and my back hurt that scared me.

So- I'll try not to wait too long if that's in the cards. It is good knowing life goes on.


munk

 

[BruiseLeee]

I like to keep my poop in until such time as I don't need it anymore....

An empty colon is a happy colon. I always thought that since the "stuff" is full of bad stuff it was better to run around half empty than half full. Probably some kind of bathroom zen book.

 

[Semper Fi]

Back pain can be pure misery. Mine hurts sometimes but I think it has more to do with my gut (weight) than anything else. I threw it out once underground (coal mines) and never thought I'd walk. An old chiropractor got me going again.

Hollow, how did ya lose 60 pounds? And don't tell me not to eat. I'm looking for a magic bullet.

 

[hollowdweller]

It really depends on the level of herniation as far as surgery. As you mention if you develop foot drop or incontinence then probably so. However handling disabiltiy claims all day I know that surgery is not always the answer. Sometimes it is, but not always.

 

[hollowdweller]

Back pain can be pure misery. Mine hurts sometimes but I think it has more to do with my gut (weight) than anything else. I threw it out once underground (coal mines) and never thought I'd walk. An old chiropractor got me going again.

Hollow, how did ya lose 60 pounds? And don't tell me not to eat. I'm looking for a magic bullet.

Semper,

I started eating as much as I wanted, but nothing after lunch. My big problem is getting home late, eating dinner late, and then sleeping on all that food. Sometimes I only eat once a day. Still even doing that you reach a plateau so I have been trying to exercise more. I'd like to do another 40.

Yea, the mines are awful for back problems. Stooped over. damp, kinda cold.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Hey Munk.

Sorry about the back back, friend My dad had the same kind of thing happen to him a couple years ago. He was about 47 and has always had a bad back. He's a bear of a man and tough as anything. The only thing that i've ever seen him miss work for was that back of his. Well, one day a couple years ago he noticed some acute numbness in his right leg, like it fell asleep for no reason in a matter of seconds. Being the tough guy he is (i.e. hardhead) he ignored it. He finally ignored it until his leg gave out on him as he was stepping out of his backhoe and he landed face first on a landscaping rock. and i mean FACE first. He finally went to the doctor and they told him he had blown a disk in his lower back. He had the operation, and in three months time he was back to full back strength. I don't pry into his personal life with my stepmom, but i ASSUME everything is <<ahem>> OK. Best of luck with your back. I'm built quite a bit like my dad so i know i'll be messing with the same thing in a few years. take care.

~Jake

 

[Semper Fi]

My big problem is getting home late, eating dinner late, and then sleeping on all that food.

Yep, that sounds like me. I'm going to give your "nothing after lunch" diet a try. Hail, I tried just about everything else. Might as well.

 

[hollowdweller]

It's hard to get used to, but if you suffer about a month it's not too bad. I get a lot better rest without all that food in my stomach at night too.

If I am camping or more active I eat 3x a day or whatever, but when I am at my normal sedentary desk job I just try to do the none after noon.

 

[CARman]

Since munk brought this up, it give me the perfect chance to ask some advice for myself.

A couple of weeks ago at work I sat down in one of our chairs and it broke causing it to swivel or wobble and twist my lower back. Now I didn't think to much about it but it did cause some amount of pain in lower back, hip area, and numbness to my right thigh but not all the way to my lower leg.

Since I work in a hospital I was seen in our E.R. No XRays at that time were done, and I was released to home for that day with diagnosis of lower back sprain and to follow up at our occupational health clinic the next day.

That night I began to have severe pain in my lower back and right hip radiating to my right thigh and with pain meds made it through the night.

The next day I was seen at the clinic and the P.A. sent me for Xrays that came back ok. And I have been on valium and naprosyn since with my back improving over the last few days.

The only thing that has me worried is that a few days ago my right thigh has continued to be numb and feels like it is asleep and very cold. It dosen't even have much feeling in it.

I go back to the clinic tomorrow and will probably be released back to work.

My question is to whomever may know, would a ruptured or herniated disk show up on a nomal Xray or should I ask for an MRI ?

Sorry for cutting in on your thread munk and sorry it is so long, but I don't know what to do and don't won't to injure my back any further than it is.

I might add that I did EMS ambulance work for 20 + years and have recently taken an administrative job. I've pulled muscles before, but this feels different.

Thanks for any help or advice.

 

[Yvsa]

Well, the MRI is done and I have a ruptured disk. I also have a nearly collapsed one- which is kind of odd.
The broken disk is under lumbar number 3 or 4 I think; so it bears a lot of weight.

.....or picking up one of those Honking big tree trunk chunks a couple years ago. Man, were they big. I could barely carrry one.

This year, though, my leg began to hurt a lot. I got concerned when I was pissing and that made my back hurt..

Possible futures include nothing, surgery, or loss of functions- sexual, bowel, bladder, and leg.
I'm going to stick it out until then under the philosophy that every time you go under the knife you take chances and lose a little.

This week is better as I saw a specialist last week and was put on stronger meds.

Any advice or insight would be appreciated.

Her idea is to get an MRI on my upper back too- not without its own troubles, and then, in one spectacular day, have them drill a bunch of holes in me and fix everything.

I dont think they work like that.

munk

"I dont think they work like that."

First of all Munk let me say how sad I am to hear about this development. It sure as hell isn't any fun for anyone that has to go through it.

Regretfully they do Munk.
I personally have met two people where exactly that was done. The worst example was a young lady I met at the Tulsa Rape Crisis Org. while doing volunteer work for them when I was still able after my second surgery. She is a scoliosis patient that had an abnormaly, even for a scoliosis patient, crooked spine due to her disease. The surgeons went in and relieved all of the stresses on her spine and straightened her out all at once!!!! It's good to report that after two years she was still doing great!!!!
It would be nice to know how she is doing still.

Personally I have had three back surgeries. The first one was a fusing of L-3 to L-5 with the pedicle rods and screws...
No loss of functions of any kind...

The second was the removal of the original screws and a fusing from L-3 to L-1, again using the pedicle screws and rods except this time they were titanium instead of stainless steel...
Again no loss of any functions...

The third was the removal of the hardware and a refusing of L-1 to L-2 without hardware because of cartilage growing in the fusion instead of bone.
In the beginning I was pretty good with no loss of functions but I stayed pretty active and walked every day at least three miles. Those weren't bad days, not bad at all.

Then in September 1998 I had a major flare, outbreak, of Stills Disease which is better described as "The Systemic Adult Onset of Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis" which I now believe that I have had for years as I was misdiagnosed for Beurger's Disease back in 1984 and had a severe and dangerous surgery for which I probably had no need.

That experience has led me to develop a philosophy of "Never See a Surgeon First!!!!" Because- They Will Operate -as that's all they know!!!!
Myself and the current physicians I have now all believe that indeed I was misdiagnosed which has led to my body damaging itself for many years because I had no treatment for what I really have.

The Still's flare knocked me on my ass and led me into a period of inactivity of which due to other complications led me into further inactivity which has led me to the condition that I'm in today. That and having a so-called doctor who thinks he is a God for the last few years has contributed to me not getting much improvement since.
I finally fired him about six weeks ago, don't know why I waited so long!!!!
He told me about two years ago that he couldn't do anything more for me and that I was as good as I would ever be, as well as telling me I didn't need certain tests I had requested,since proved so very wrong!!!!

The Cardiac Rehab at St Johns Medical Center where I was enrolled by my cardiac specialist after having a diagnoses of Congestive Heart Disease was the best thing that has happpened to me in years.
I went from being barely able to walk to walking fairly well as long as I have a stick or cane although I can't walk a long distance without having to stop and rest frequently.

Now that I have finally went to a new Dr. that was recommended highly by my nephew who himself is in the medical field and is a fellow ndn and has been to our Lodge to Sweat. I have Great Hopes!!!!
After only two visits I now have two new meds that have given me at least a 50% improvement!!!!
I am once again sleeping at least six hours a night, usually straight through.
And besides that he also suspected as I have for so long that I had certain deficiencies and tested for them and lo and behold I was spot on!!!! The supplements unfortuantely take about three months to work but hopefully some functions I have lost will fianlly be restored to me.
Like I said, "I have Great Hopes!!!!"

So - at this time I may have to rethink my present views on having back surgery.
The two people I mentioned above have both done well and I know a couple of others that had back surgery long before the pedicle screws and rods that have also done very well and they are both older than me, one several years older.
I'm still having pain, but not nearly as bad as it was even three months ago.
The last week or so I have been more active than I have in ages and ages and that is a huge boost to my self esteem!!!!
And I'm no longer as certain that my problems are the result of my back surgeries or completely the results of the other medical problems that have befallen me.
Right now- today -I am leaning towards the other complications.

My advise is too get a second and a third opinion. And call the Montana Workers Compensation Org. and ask them who is the best back surgeon they send people too.
That's how I got my last neurosurgeon and I would recommend him to anyone needing back surgery!!!!

Hopefully this isn't too much information. I imagine all of you are tired of hearing about my medical problems, but it really helps to vent about them here.

 

[munk]

CARMAN!!

Let me get this post out now, before I digest Yvsa's. You are in trouble. Since it is work related you are thankfully covered. Nothing causes numbness as you are experiencing without nerve impairment.

It sounds exactly as if you've 'slipped a disk' - ruptured. Be assertive, go to a specialist and get the MRI. Xrays cannot find this.

I'm sorry to have to tell you. Maybe it is only inflamation in the area- but I doubt it.


munk

 

[Yvsa]

Hollow, how did ya lose 60 pounds? And don't tell me not to eat. I'm looking for a magic bullet.

Semp I went from 305 down to 240 last year. I went to a D.O. that is open to non traditional medicine. There is a diet that relies on a pill that is a neuroblocker. It blocks the neuroceptors that signal you're still hungry. I was on an 1100 calorie a day diet and was never hungry!!!!
I ate a lot of salads and fresh strawberries, happen to love 'em and have since I was a kid.
I still use a bit of olive oil and different vinegars on my salad's. Along with some salt and pepper and/or other seasonings I've found I like it better than the thick and extremely fattening salad dressings.
I cut my meat portions from huge to 4 ounces and now enjoy a nice filet as much as I used to enjoy a 2 pound sirloin.
The problem is that the damned pills are expensive and you have a doctor's visit every two weeks, gets really expensive really quick!!!!
But they have cut their visit prices this year and have a new program that's not as expensive.
You may be able to find a Dr. that uses this program online. That's how I found Dr. Wright although I was searching for a thyroid Dr. to begin with, another test that my old Dr wouldn't do. He used the quick and dirty test that doesn't tell all.
But I'm gonna talk to my new Dr. first because he may have something as good that's cheaper. And besides I have a great deal of faith in him!!!!

 

[CARman]

Thanks munk, I forgot to tell you that I am sorry to hear of your back problems, I've only been around a few months and didn't know you had these problems.

I hope yourself and Yvsa can overcome all of your medical issues and be blessed with good health.

 

[munk]

Yvsa, I've seen one of the top rated men in Montana and now I'm going to another one in Lewistown. The first guy said he wouldn't operate now- let's wait and see. I believe that.

I knew I wasn't alone in this.






munk

 

[Yvsa]

Yvsa, I've seen one of the top rated men in Montana and now I'm going to another one in Lewistown. The first guy said he wouldn't operate now- let's wait and see. I believe that.

I knew I wasn't alone in this.

munk

Glad to hear that you have the top rated man and he said. "Let's wait and see." That is so encouraging to say the least!!!!
But do not, I repeat Do Not, do any exercises like bending over and touching your toes or anything that is gonna make your back move in a way that isn't gentle. Gentle stretching is fine but even if there is the slightest pain, STOP!!!!
I speak from experience!!!! Damned seurosurgeons think they are Gods, at leat many of them do. It's refreshing to find a genuine human being neurosurgeon!!!!

The first Drs I had were an orthepedic and a neurosurgeon. The neurosurgeon did okay, but the orth didn't get as much curve in my back as there originally was. My back used to be so curved that I would curl a Brand New Heavy leather belt in two weeks or less!!!!
Now my back is damned near as flat as a pancake and I no longer curl belts!!!!
Consequently that puts undue pressure on my hips and sacroaliac joint or S.I. as it's called in the field.
Besides the new Dr. I've been seeing a massage therapist who has helped me a Great, Great, Great Deal!!!!
Along with the recent injections in the hips and S.I. joint's I have had many, many days pain free!!!!
It has felt so good that I have just sat and cried from the relief.
After several years of severe chronic pain the pain becomes normal and to be pain free, even for a little while, feels so good that it's indescribable, at least for me.
I'm beginning to feel that my personal time of testing by Unelanvhi*, Great Mystery, is over and it's a relief in itself, if indeed that has been the source of my troubles.

Unelanvhi = U as the wo in two, ne as nay, la as law, nv as no in nothing, hi as he. (t)wo nay law no(thing) he.
Cherokee is a complicated language.

 

[fenryr]

Hey Munk,

Sorry to be so late in the game responding.....been doing stuff around the house. Listen, I'm only 36 yoa and I can sneeze and mess my back up. Thought I had pulled a hamstring once and ended up in bed for a month on my belly because I couldn't sit on my arse....turns out it was a disk and just needed time to push back in place. But I was lucky or so I thought. Couple months later, my toes on the my right leg start feeling funny and my leg feels tight. Go to phys. therapist who sees it as a disk problem. She gives me some excercises and tips on posture, lifting etc. Heck I've got two kids....one who wants to play chase and get lifted to the ceiling. I know your pain my friend and I feel for you. Slow it down, be careful and follow Ysva's advise. Luckily it IS something that can be fixed and corrected with time and PATIENCE. Time you have but the if you are like me you have little patience for being lame or laid up.

I'm not preaching....just empathsizing....I wished I put the spell check on that Ysva sent me....you get the point. Let me know what I can do.....and don't get frustrated....you'll be able to swing the kids around soon enough and if you want I'll babysit your khuks for ya'

Steve

 

[munk]

I know about excercizes- do them wrong, or the wrong ones, and it just gets worse. When I was a kid of 17 the rope broke to the railroad bridge I was climbing- I landed on the point of a concrete slab. It took seven years for me to brush my teeth bending over- and the Doc said nothing was wrong with me!! I remember when it went out in those days both legs woulld just move slower and slower- like one of those dreams. I suspect that is the 'collapsing' disk on the Xray and MRI today.


Thanks for all the good help and talk. If you guys lived in my neighborhood just think of the fun we could have.


munk

 

[Svashtar]

Hey Munk!

You have my sympathies and best wishes. I tripped over a tree root once while walking quickly and carrying a heavy bag. I fell forward and (so the doc said) hyper-extended my back. I lay on my back for a solid week, and if I wanted to take a leak at Noon I had better start planning the trip to the benjo around 10 am.

That was more than enough for me, and had little really to do with the spine itself, so I can only imagine the kind of pain you're in. Hope you get some good options and get the problem fixed to your satisfaction. After a couple of knee operations I know what Yvsa says about surgeons is true. They know how to cut first and ask questions later. It may be that you'll need surgery, but I hope a non-surgical option will work for you before it comes to that!

Take care and best regards,

-Norm