Russian Steels on US market?

nozh2002

nozh2002

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Russian steel holding Evraz going to by Oregon Steel Mills. I am wondering will Russian steel and technology be soon available for US knifemakers? 110x18Mshd is pretty good steel and I guess american steel may also benefit from Russian technologies - Electro Slug Remelting and Vacuum Arc Remelting.

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. Really looking forward for Military VF with 110x18MShD or Kershaw SpecBump with X12MF...
 
:) , hopefully not.......... the u.s. steel is very good quality
and the service from the factories is good aswell as the quality control of the material ,

you have no idea what kind of crap we and most other russian knife factories have to put up with from these steel producers......
they are realy quite monsterous to deal with.
they dont send steel when its ordered, they send the wrong steel,, or they send none atall, they send the steel in the wrong thickness or they sent is to hard to stamp..
the send underweight lots of steel and then refuse to refund money,,
lots of crap......
the sell 40x13 as 110x18 steel... and lots of other things, every time we get seel we check each sheet to see what it is,, otherwise we dont know it they realy send us what we order.

we are now stopping to use russian steels and are planning to use steel we import our selves from europe and later maybe japan and the u.s...
oddly another smaller producer in kizlyar uses spanish 425 steel.. and seems to like it well enougth,
we now use mostly french steel and have some german aswell.. hopefully in the end well be able to avoid this russian steel totaly..
if they sent what was ordered everythign would be good, but when you pay money and you dont know what youll actualy get ,, well its not worth it.

there has been production of powder technonlgy steels,, like the cpm steels from the us, for many years... but the companies want insane prices form them , and then you dont know what your actualy getting , and , if youll get it when you order it,, andif it will be the correct size and shape... .. hence nobody makes any knives from it....
 
Electro Slag Remelting and Vacuum Arc Remelting is used in steel companies all over the world. Just because a Russian steel company buys another in America doesn't mean the American steel company will suddenly have the capability for ESR or VAR. What is this steel you think is good from Russia? You could hope that they start making it in the Oregon plant, I suppose.

BTW, BG-42 is Vacuum Induction Melted and Vacuum Arc Remelted.
 
and then you dont know what your actualy getting , and , if youll get it when you order it,, andif it will be the correct size and shape... .
Click to expand...

I see nothing has changed since the SU. Pity, there were/are some very good metallurgist in russia.

TLM
 
Julius, I am talking about Russian steel not russian manegment and logistic etc. I can imagine what it is. Usual practice in USSR was to send somebody to the supplier from your site to make sure you will get your order. Usually you have to bring box of vodka with you (during Gorbachev antialcogolic era) to make things happen.

But steel itself as I discover only here is pretty good - I am talking about 110x18MShd (RosArms knives) which is same or better then BG42 as well as I heard a lot about your X12MF knives (When will you start selling them here?). Honestly Kizlyar making knives and so have different attention from supplier than some military factory making manevrable nuclear warheads - you can complain, but they can arrest for sabotage national sequrity matter or something if they have wrong steel. Also you may not order 2000 tons of steel, which is probably minimal shipment for them...

I hope that Evraz just trying to get to US market this way and so Oregon Steel Mills will soon offer good Russian steel for good prices so it will not be only RosArms who offers premium Russian steels.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
true vassili,

but then even when you got to the plant you dont know its the correct steel till you bring it home :D
there is a some very good metallurgists in russia,, but the factories are bad,, and the management is totaly insane :(

like i said the soviets were in the front with the powder metal and were leaps aheat iwth these techniques compared to the u.s. and europe..

they hade massice budgets for building space rockets and military equiptment,, so the could try everything,,
but now the powder metal,, and other steel development is totaly dead :( nothing new in many years,,
and as im told much of the 110x18 steel is left over stock form the old soviet days...
and the companies that do offer it now only offer it in rod form.
we have some in 6mm plate that is from the soviet times,, and its good steel its realy quite solid stuff,, it you heat treat it well,, it cuts very well and stays sharp,
but the newer stuff is not so consistant,, and hit and miss,, sometimes it is low on the alloies it should have or not enougth carbon ... we have some chemists in the factory here and so we test for these things,

regarding steel the soviets invented amny interesting and original techniques for steel production some have died with the fal of the empire, some have been exported abroad.
ingenious techniques of casting and tempering massive forms and other such thing..

also many to the powder metal techniques were quite unique im tol,, and these would shurely be welcom in any large u.s. steel factory..

but i think pm steel is totaly dead in russia,

it would have been nice to get a steel with 50% vanadium and 5% tungsten though ;) :D..........

ah vassili, when wa sin the show in atlanta i had some x12mf knvies, stirkh-1 and 3 , biker, irbis, pheonix,, korshun , u-5.. and some others, the guy who sells rosarms said youd be interested in something, but he couldnt get hold of you........ our german distributor has some knives in this steel...
www.kizlyar.de

were going to make knives in x12mf, sh15 and 110x18 in serial in the beginning of next year, aswell as some knives in high end european steels and such,, ..
but they have to be hand ground as all 3 of these steels dont take well to the grinding stones,, and they all some as frod stock aswell..
 
ah there is or,, atleast was some stainless steels that are of a higher grade to the 110x18 marks of steel..
.. ,, i cant remember the mark numbers,, but we have them in the steels chart,, and there is some bits around the factory,, sveral marks,, somethign between x12mf and 110x18....... ill look into it....
 
I've been using this small Russian knife (Zlatoust made ROSarms "Fellow-Traveler") around the house for a few weeks now, mostly for food prep', meat and vegetable on a wood cutting board, it has the steel 110x18M and has really held it's edge well, even after repeatedly hitting bone and the wood cutting board it still shaves.

I am planning to buy a larger knife after XMASS I have been so impressed with this one.

ROSarms-Fellow-Traveler-1.jpg
 
The Last Confederate said:
I've been using this small Russian knife (Zlatoust made ROSarms "Fellow-Traveler") around the house for a few weeks now, mostly for food prep', meat and vegetable on a wood cutting board, it has the steel 110x18M and has really held it's edge well, even after repeatedly hitting bone and the wood cutting board it still shaves.

I am planning to buy a larger knife after XMASS I have been so impressed with this one.

ROSarms-Fellow-Traveler-1.jpg
Click to expand...

I suggest you to try one with birch bark handle. On my opinion the best big knife (an I have quite a bit to compare with) from ergonomic point of view is Taiga.

Unfortunately they do not make folders. I like to have actually folder with this russian pumped up BG42 - something like Military or SpecBump or Byker (yes julius why are using 65 all the way!).

Thanks, Vassili.
 
At least for german steel i know that it is exported and sold in the USA. There's a steel mill which i know very well which exports A2 steel as well as 1.2519 tungsten steel to the US since decades.

Achim
 
I ordered a COMPANION-3 from them last wednesday and it showed up yesterday very nicely packed and paded and you cant beat free shipping. Im planing on buying the reef model also in the not to distant future.
 
Thanks for that feedback grumpyxtremes10! I think the small knife I have is a Companion-2 or -1, some websites call it the "fellow-traveler"?????
 
The Last Confederate said:
That's what I am planning, so far this "Bear-3" is the one I like the best.

bear3-bg.jpg
Click to expand...

Just keep in mind that it is pretty thin - 0.08" (2.2 mm). About half of their model like this and another has more usual for US market thickness - 0.2" (5 mm).

The Last Confederate said:
Have you ever ordered from http://www.rusknives.com/ if you have, how was their sales and service?
Click to expand...

I did not buy ower this website yet - they set it up like month ago. But I doubt it will be something like Julius described... This is American bussines selling Russian knives, I guess they do not even know how to make bussiness russian way...

Well from Wednesday to Monday pretty good timing...

Funny, but I know that for new supermarkets in Moscow management will not hire you if you ever work in sales bussines back in Soviet Union before...

In Russian it sounds like "Poputchik" - companion or fellow traveler, person which share travel with you.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
ha ha , supermarkets are smart.........


ah, vassili,, you ask why we used the 65x13 steel?
well in dagestan , back in the day,, when kizlyar was small, the only stainless steel you could buy was 40x13 steel.. back in the eairly 1990s.
so in the begining the knives were from this steel..

later as they grew they pruchased many steels,, from various makers, and then at some point a container of soviet era 65x13 steel was offered to purchase,, it was good quality and in the thicknesses required,,,
a huge amount at a good price,,
so this was used, later as the steel was used up some german steel was tried, but found to be not so good,,,,,,, :O ..
then other steels were tried, but 95x18 and 110x18 were both found to be of very bad quality, i mean one plate was correct and the next was not,, some other stuff offered in rods was better,, i thin the zlatoust guys use rods and forge them out,,
however by this time things had grown,, and stamping was needed for the standard knives, otherwise wed nee 100rnds of smith to make the blades,,

so 65x13 was found to be the best for stamping,, then some time later... the stock of the 65x13 we had was totaly depleted,, and now we use aus6 steel from france.......
it is good...
but, as customers alwasy want something with a fancier mark we are now looking for something better.....
we looked at steels from bohler,, and krupp and some ther makers, but many had to high prices for the good steels, the lowern end steels are priced as the russian steels or better,,,,,
maybe well buy some of the french steel maybe look into the swedish steel or japanese steel, it all depends on the price.....

but are grinding machines are old and not good fro high alloy steels,, so stuff like d2 is ground by hand,, we are looking into buying new modern grinding machines and cnc equiptment and such in the near future,

ive recently used two knives one in vg10 from japan and one in 110x18 and the vg 10 knife realy was miles better at keeping the edge, but maybe the japs were just very good at heat treating it.......

anyway , im no lover of russian steels :) and neither are most folks who hace to deal with the steel companies
hey but some of those uzbek and tajik bquichuks are realy quite good steel........... :D some others are not ;)
 
with the rosarms knives,, good buy,, they are nice, and i guess somethign different form the knives you americans are used to,,
only thing i dont like about them is that maybe that handles could shrink and then youd be screwed,, i hope the put a brass screw in the pommel or such ..
ah, AiR makes some decent models aswell.. same style as rosarms,,
but i dont think you can buy them outside russia?
 
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