Rust blueing??

J.Marsillo

J.Marsillo

Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
1,255
I stopped by Gander mnt. to pick up some cold blueing and struck up a conversation with the gunsmith.He reccomended a process called rust blueing
I tried Brownells but didnt see anything :confused: Has anybody used this method.Blueing salts are wayyyyy out for me :p
 
Rust blueing, or a russet finish, is essentially the same as "browning" usually when I've seen people talk about rust blueing they're talking about an 'actual' russet finish vs a gun-browning finish.

If you go to a gunstore you can get a bottle of gun browning for pretty cheap, it's applied in the same way that blueing is.

When I'm putting a russet finish on a piece of sheet metal for something else however, usualy I do the following. Get a high polish finish on the surface, then take a tupperware tub with a mixture of white vinegar and water about an inch deep. Use some sort of rack to suspend the piece above the liquid, and seal the container, then placing it in a warm place. Let it sit for several days, occasionally removing it, turning it over, and wiping it down lightly with a paper towel (be careful not to get finger prints on it) This will build a durable russet finish over time on the polished metal which is more durable than store bought browning.

(for a good example, think about the metal railings at amusement parks, very smooth, and brown color, an extremely durable finish that isnt going to wear off, that's a russet finish)
 
Thanks guys,looks pretty good.The stuff the gunsmith was talking about was applied using a torch and several applications to give a deeper blue.better than cold blueing but not as good as salts.:confused:

(for a good example, think about the metal railings at amusement parks, very smooth, and brown color, an extremely durable finish that isnt going to wear off, that's a russet finish)
Click to expand...
Ahhhhh now I see :thumbup:
 
I think you mean 'browning' You can do it most simply with a salt solution. It takes some time but not too much effort - rusting , carding with steel wool , rusting,carding, etc . I have a bunch of gunsmithing books so I could give you instructions on any type finish you want !!!
 
and here's what rust or slow rust blue will look like when done:
cold-blue-002.jpg

(the spot of red is a reflection from the camera)

This one was done using Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown (2 coats) then boiled in water with baking soda added to neutralize the acid (most rust blue mixes use nitric acid in their formula) - the metal was then burnished with a piece of antler and then oiled. The more coats/boilings the deeper the finish, but on a blade over 4 or 5 your get diminishing returns.......of course the edge when sharpened will be bright. Also going over a 600 grit is self-defeating - the browning/blueing just won't take as good if too highly polished - I've been using this method on muzzleloaders and a few knives for better than 30 years, much tougher than any commercial cold blue.

Actually when done right this blue is much better than salt blue, its' still used on the finest of custom guns like those from Holland and Holland and Rigby.......
 
mete said:
I think you mean 'browning' You can do it most simply with a salt solution. It takes some time but not too much effort - rusting , carding with steel wool , rusting,carding, etc . I have a bunch of gunsmithing books so I could give you instructions on any type finish you want !!!
Click to expand...

:) Sounds very interesting Mete. I presume it's best with simple steels (ie not stainless). Specific sals solution or any old table salt?

OK - I'll stop blabbering. Yes Please - I for one would really appreciate instructions on such a finish.

Rob!
 
Thanks for the pic.In my small confined space of a brain a picture is worth 1,000 words :D
 
The finish on the London Best guns from Holland, Purder, Boss, Evans, Asprey,etc., is so dark that they actually refer to it as 'blacking". But then again, when you are charging $125,000 for a 12 gauge double gun and $200k+ for a big bore double rifle, there is no such thing as a point of diminishing returns:D
 
Blue or brown ? Actually the are two valences [high school chemistry !] for iron , Fe++ and Fe+++ thus the two oxides one brown and one black.The one you get depends on the process. Colors and general quality depend on surface, alloy and hardness. The simplest uses a 10 % salt [NaCl] solution, a faster one uses a 0.5 % ammonium chloride solution.The steel must be perfectly clean and degreased and distilled water works better.NaCl solution may take as much as 10 hours between applications [swabbing on ]depending on humidity, and up to 12 applications .Carding after the first one takes off only loose rust.After carding rinse in pure water .Sometimes a 'rusting box' is used .When finished the part is boiled in pure water and a coating of linseed oil or wax is applied. This takes a bit of experimenting depending on alloy etc .There are more complex solutions for this using other salts and acids..Take care to keep tools and other things you DON'T want rusted away.
 
I jus had to order some of the damned Pilkingtons after reading this..:p Now my question is how do you get a clean matte blue finish ? do you have to sand or bead blast?
 
I have been using Pilkingtons rust blue for years on both cartridge and muzzleloading guns that I build from scratch. All have a very uniform soft blue color -- not black at all. One thing I learned is that there is no need to finish any finer than 240 grit because the acid in the bluing will etch the surface during the bluing process. As to the carding I use a 6" wire wheel running at about 400 rpm and the wire is so fine that I don't think the wheel would scratch your face if you ran the wheel against it. The last thing I would add is to always use distilled water to do your boiling otherwize you might get some rather deep pits from the minerals or chemicals found in tap or rain water. I found out the hard way about that one:mad:
 
Rust browning can give you a nice finish, that is pretty durable if you take the time to do it right. It is a little bit harder to do on hardened peices like knife blades. They don't seem to etch quite as easily as a gun barrel.
I did this knife using "Dangler's Browning Solution", which I had used on a muzzle loader barrel also. You can get it from www.logcabinshop.com.

The knife is 01, and to get the darker brown/blue color I boiled it at the end of the browning process.

attachment.php


Humidity helps move things along faster but the most important thing is having the peice really clean before you start.
 
valimas said:
Thanks guys,looks pretty good.The stuff the gunsmith was talking about was applied using a torch and several applications to give a deeper blue.better than cold blueing but not as good as salts.:confused:
Click to expand...

I think what he was talking about is a product called "Mark Lee" express blue. It is what I use when I am bluing just one single rifle or any double barrel shotgun. I have had good success with it, the trick (as with anything) is in the metal prep beforehand. After the prep all you do is heat the metal to 150-200 and apply two coats of the Express blue, boil the metal for 5 min. "card" the metal using a special brush or degreased extra fine steel wool, then repeat. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...p=8795&title=EXPRESS+BLUE+#1+EXPRESS+BROWN+#2 The only draw back to rust bluing is the amount of time it takes as opposed to salt bluing. Other than that I prefer the look a rust blue can provide to the salt blue.
 
Thanks aps32,and welcome to bladeforums :) I think the express blue is what he was talking about.That knife looks great Matt:thumbup: This is just a small step for me into another one knifemakings many doorways.I love the look of blued fittings and want to try my hand at it.:D Watch,my next thread will be on blueing salts and pots ;)
 
OK Mete


You really have me interested. The last time I had Ammonium Chloride, I was seven and the chemistry set said it made a great smoke bomb. True!:D

NaCl, I have lots of that - most of it iodized - is that a problem?? I can make a 10% soln' - and swabbing it on is easy enough. 10 hours to rust is easy enough - carding with steel wool is easy enough. Then what? ... or is that the part where the differnce between brown and blue comes in? Lots of reps then boil in distilled water - then oil or wax to preserve.

I have 1095, O1, A2, D2, 3V and a selection of stainless. Although the stainless and D2 will rust with a little encouragement, I presume they would be a bad starting point. Suggestions. I'm glad to experiment to get it right but any hints are apperciated.

If I had to choose, I'd say 'browning'. Do I have to choose??:rolleyes:

Thanks again.

Rob!
 
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