S!K & D3V

[XtianAus]

Wondering if anyone has gotten around to using their new spec S!K with D3V and had a chance to compare it to the old HT.

Any noticeable improvements at all in toughness, edge retention and/or corrosion resistance?
On paper there should be improvements, but any real world usage/tests out in the wild people can mention?

 

[Standard78]

Other than edge retention, I haven't noticed a difference yet.
I'm betting it'll be more noticeable in bigger blades like the 7/7, 10 and 12.
I'd like to see a comparison between both generations of 10's.

 

[XtianAus]

Other than edge retention, I haven't noticed a difference yet.
I'm betting it'll be more noticeable in bigger blades like the 7/7, 10 and 12.
I'd like to see a comparison between both generations of 10's.

Absolutely. Hopefully once the bigger blades make their ways to their homes there will be more reviews/comparisons shared from people. From reading CPK users, it seems their is quite an improvement with corrosion resistance compared with other 3V protocols. Even soaked in water, it seems D3V resists rust.

 

[ATJ999]

It definitely has better corrosion resistance. Edge retention is better as well, also edge stability.

 

[Silver Needle]

I'm hoping for some interesting replies here.

All you lucky sons of guns with a new 4.1 need to jump in and enlighten us.

ATJ, I keep hearing conflicting things and I need to dig a little to sort it out for myself. Yours is not the first mention of improved corrosion resistance, but then I thought I read Nathan, himself, say the delta did not improve this aspect, but rather just the edge stability. Then again, I have no first hand knowledge yet.

 

[ATJ999]

"A side effect of this heat treat is a higher percentage of free chromium, so although it is not stainless, it is nearly so." From a CPK D3V sale

I have quite a few 3V knives, with lots of different HT's, and I would say it is correct. With my Light chopper and my field knife, both have great edge stability and corrosion resistance. I eat acidic fruit almost everyday with my field knife and it is still in perfect condition. On my slimline machete with a different HT, it has started some patina, and I try and take very good care of it. I treat my light chopper the same, and that is also in perfect condition, lots of marks/scratches, but no patina at all.
To be fair, I have had my slimline machete months longer and use it almost everyday. I use that thing a lot!! So I would say D3V has better corrosion resistance, but other 3V HT's is no slouch, it holds up great. I do not know what HT my slimline machete has.

 

[Hard Knocks]

but then I thought I read Nathan, himself, say the delta did not improve this aspect, but rather just the edge stability

"A side effect of this heat treat is a higher percentage of free chromium, so although it is not stainless, it is nearly so." From a CPK D3V sale

I think the confusion here arises due to the various tweaks of the heat treat leading up to the delta protocol. The lower temperature protocols are more corrosion resistant than industry standard, which I believe is what Nathan is referencing in that quote above, ATJ. SN, you are absolutely correct that between the tweak immediately preceding Delta, and Delta, that edge stability was the main improvement.

 

[ATJ999]

Exactly, so it will be more corrosion resistant.
Yes, edge stability is improved, the most dramatic improvement. The other two improvements are just bonuses.
From what it says on the Survive website, they are using the D3V Ht protocol 59.5 HRC- 60.5HRC. The CPK light chopper is heat treated to 60.5, so if the smaller Survive! D3V knives are run at 60.5, most likely including the 4.1, that will make for all around great knife with plenty of toughness, edge stability, edge retention, and corrosion resistance. I ordered my first Survive knives this last factory 2nd's batch, a 4.1 and a 7/7. Can't wait to try them both.

 

[XtianAus]

I agree SN, I am also interested to hear from the lucky bunch that have the new 4.1
Can't wait for them to become available for ordering again.
At this point I don't desire many more knives to add to my collection/pre-ordered knives. A 4.1 (or2) and maybe a smaller fixed blade is all I want now.

 

[Silver Needle]

Thanks, guys! So what you're all basically saying is the confusion is coming from these jerks constantly trying to outdo themselves with the capabilities of 3v, right?

I got mixed up because the delta came so fast after the first low temper hear treat.

Xtian, I have a strong desire for big knives and more knives than I'll be able to use regularly, but I think I'm with you in that just a few mid sized knives are all I really NEED.

 

[Hard Knocks]

Thanks, guys! So what you're all basically saying is the confusion is coming from these jerks constantly trying to outdo themselves with the capabilities of 3v, right?

I got mixed up because the delta came so fast after the first low temper hear treat.

Lol. The jerks!! These makers make this stuff look easy, and my limited understanding of a complicated process doesn't help! However, I don't think you were confused Matt, what you stated was correct as I understand it.

Here's some links that might prove helpful.

In theory the D3V might be a little more corrosion resistant than the previous low temp tweak, but it wouldn't be by much.

There is not a huge difference between Delta 3V and the un-named low temper tweak that immediately preceded it. They're related processes, the primary functional difference being improved edge durability with the Delta version. This difference shows up in side by side testing in rough use but I think most folks would like the predecessor just fine, it was no slouch.

And this is the post that was made in this forum, and possibly the one you referred to Matt:

Between Delta and the previous tweak, the corrosion resistance is the same, the abrasive wear resistance is the same, the gross toughness (resistance to breaking) is the same, the primary difference is in edge stability, particularly resistance to damage in rough use, which results in better edge retention and more tolerance to accidently hitting a rock or a tough knot etc.

The above quotes are sections of quotes, but the links can be followed for the full conversations. A final thought......I think it matters a great deal when we talk about the properties of delta 3V, whether we are comparing it to industry standard or the more recent low temperature tempering tweaks.

 

[Silver Needle]

Thank you, HK! I had bits of those quotes floating around in my head when I was reading this thread. That's helpful for all of us to have those quotes in one spot. The post would be a great candidate for an informational sticky!

 

[ATJ999]

I agree, because there are very little difference between other low temperature tempers on 3V and D3V. Should not be much difference. I have not noticed any when using other 3V blade with low Temperature temper HT protocols compared to D3V knives. But, between the industry standard HT and Low Temperature HT protocol's, I notice a big difference.

 

[Hard Knocks]

You are welcome! Hopefully it is slightly clearer than mud with that information.

Xtian, sorry, I don't have any GSO's in D3V for a comparison, only CPKs.

 

[XtianAus]

That is alrite! Those quotes you posted were informative anyway!
Performance-wise the D3V for CPK will be exactly the same as what S! use anyway, right? With the difference coming down to the design of the knife?

 

[Hard Knocks]

Performance-wise the D3V for CPK will be exactly the same as what S! use anyway, right? With the difference coming down to the design of the knife?

I believe that's correct, the exact same heat treat with differences in the design, blade geometry, and type of finish applied to the blade by each company. I will say that I hardly worry at all about corrosion on the field knife, but have to watch my old 4.1s a little (man they're still not bad though with even a little care and I'm pretty rough on them, so I'm just speaking comparatively). Also, there is no doubt in my mind that the edge holds up better in rough use on the D3V FK compared to the old 4.1s which I believe were high temp protocol 3V blades. I'm sure not throwing anything out though! Cheers bud.

 

[XtianAus]

Awesome, thanks man. That is definitely a helpful comparison. I seriously want a new 4.1 to see how it is next to my FK. The FK is a fantastic little knife but the odds of getting another are low to none. I think the 4.1 would be an equal opponent to fufil my urge

 

[Hard Knocks]

I seriously want a new 4.1 to see how it is next to my FK.

^This!! This is the comparison we need to see, and both forums are talking about it. I'd love to do it, but am waiting to grab a 4.1 on the secondary market, and that's going to take some time.

 

[XtianAus]

^This!! This is the comparison we need to see, and both forums are talking about it. I'd love to do it, but am waiting to grab a 4.1 on the secondary market, and that's going to take some time.

I think there are F2nds still going on if you want to avoid the secondary market. I would of picked one up by now but they don't offer G10 for them :s
I personally prefer it over micarta so i am going to wait for regular sales.

But ye will be an awesome comparison and no matter which model people end up preffering, i am sure they will be very close in most departments.
To bad they are both difficult to get haha

 

[Fancier]

A 4.1 in D3V wasn't hard to get. I waited for the seconds to be offered, paid for one with G10 camo, and then waited.
The order was placed in October and the knife arrived in March.
G10 may be hard to find in the future since they seem to be offering only Micarta on the 2nds to simplify production.