S35VN vs. CTS-40CP comparison?

LorenzoL

LorenzoL

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Mar 9, 2009
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I was wondering if there were members out there who had done some hands-on comparison between Crucible's new S35VN and Carpenter's CTS-40CP...
 
I own an S35VN Mule from Spyderco, but I have not really seen any knives made from that CTS steel. I'm interested to read any feedback on this as well.

S35VN is a great steel, holds an edge a little better than S30V I would say.
 
I do not own CTS-40CP either, but can double what Rev just said.
CPM S35VN is great steel, holds the edge real well and sharpens easier than s30v. :thumbup:
 
40CP looks to be a powder steel 440C. It's not in the same category as S35VN other than both being powder process stain resistant steels.

The process should help improve 440C in a few ways so it'll be interesting to try it. Sal G. has spoken well of it, though not too many people around here have tried it yet.
 
Joe, I know that on paper those two are not even close. I was looking for some practical tests to confirm that.
I am not asking this simply out of mere curiosity, here is the reason behind my question: after the Crucible financial reorganization last year, many custom makers cited difficulties finding S30V in adequate quantities, so many switched to CPM-145. Now, however, some are moving to S35VN or even CTS-XHP while a few (well, one) are switching to CTS-40CP. I suspect that cost and ease of work is the main reason behind that choice, however I don't want to draw conclusions before I hear some more feedback on 40CP.
 
Sorry LorenzoL, No offense meant on that one. Just attribute it to my poor typing and paying attention to what I'm doing skills.

I'm not a really big fan of 440C, but I'm looking forward to trying the new CTS steels. All that become available anyway.

Sal did say it's good stuff and he hasn't steered me wrong yet.

Regards, Joe
 
LorenzoL - I think in addition to the scarcity of CPM-S30V the price must have shot through the roof for a while. I know some knives that use CPM-S30V have gone up in price significantly. One example I could offer is the Military. They are almost $150 now, last year they were around $120. I'm not saying with certainty that this is what has driven the cost up, but it seems like a reasonably explanation.
 
to Cynic...yes the 20CP is a nice steel, and it has been around in a few knives. I've had it in PM2, SurviveKnives GSO 3.5, and perhaps one or two others. Excellent steel. But yes, the 40CP is a new guy to me...just saw it offered on a (small) Dozier Folding Hunter DK-FHF . Who woulda figured that Dozier would use something other than D2?
 
at the end of the video it shows his results of the cut tests he does for all the knives he's done thus far.
 
According to my little knife steel ap on my Iphone from Zknives.com CTS-20CP is an analogue of S90v.

According to the same ap CTS-40CP is carpenter's version of 440c. However it doesn't specify if it is a PM. Usually they put a little PM next to the name if it is a powder steel. So I am not sure if it is or it isn't.

To be honest I think 440c is highly underrated. This seems to be mostly because so many low end users are putting it in their knives and they do not perform a good heat treat. However other top end makers like Jay Fisher seem to like 400c alot.

As 400c has less carbides in it should it not be fairly tough for a stainless steel? This seems to be what makes 154cm fairly tough as well.
 
I have an SnG with the 40cp and it came sharp and holds an edge well. I have kept it sharp with just occasional light touch ups on the sharpmaker so I haven't really let it get dull. I can't compare it to S35 because I'm not sure I even have any right now.
 
I have an SnG in 40CP. In my experience of sharpening and maintaining it, I've been very impressed. It definitely doesn't behave like the high vanadium steels in sharpening. It's grain structure seems to be super, super fine leading to taking an extremely keen edge. I've read that it's extremely even distribution and fine grain structure allow for heat treating it in the the 60s on the RC scale while still preserving toughness, and I believe it based on how it's been cutting and holding up for me. I haven't done anything resembling scientific testing with it, but in everyday use (cardboard cutting, that kind of stuff) it has held up as well or better than the S35VN I've had experience with (CRK, Hinderer primarily). I've never had to do more than strop it a bit to bring it back to hair popping sharpness.

From what I've seen so far I'd say it's a step above S35 and definitely above S30. Probably a bit below M390/CTS204P/20CV, but approaching that level of performance. Don't let the "just a powdered version of 440C" put you off of this one. It's very high class stuff.
 
https://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-bladesteelS-440C.htm

According to the link you provided, listed above, CTS-40CP has the same composition as Carpenter and Crucible's 400c. It is also very close to Latrobe's 400c and Bohler's N695. The listed Carpenter 440b (the column on the farthest right on the table you provided) has less carbon in its make up.

So it seems that indeed, CTS-40CP is Carpenter's PM 440c.

That makes me wonder how it scored higher than S100v and m4 in the cut test video provided a few posts up in this thread.

(I actually quite like 400c I think it is largely underrated)
 
Y'all need to actually read the data sheet:

"...when heat treated, CTS 40CP attains the highest hardness of any stainless steel (about 61.5 RC)."

"Carpenter CTS 40CP allow has found application in specialty knife blade applications. It's fine carbide distribution and fine-grained microstructure enhance cutting performance as much as 40% than the equivalent cast/wrought steels."
Click to expand...

Yes, it is "just" a powder metal version of 440C. But that difference is way, way bigger than people seem to be discerning.
 
See also the info about the steel here:


Discussion of the steel starts at 1:55.
 
Maybe I didn't put it right. I am in no way denigrating either 440c or Cts-40cp. I am not trying to imply that it is "just" PM 400c. All I was stating is that its composition is the same.

What I mean at the bottom there is I wonder how a PM 440c can seem to achieve such significant improvements in performance.
 
Lapedog said:
Maybe I didn't put it right. I am in no way denigrating either 440c or Cts-40cp. I am not trying to imply that it is "just" PM 400c. All I was stating is that its composition is the same.

What I mean at the bottom there is I wonder how a PM 440c can seem to achieve such significant improvements in performance.
Click to expand...

I hear ya there. And I think (I could easily be wrong) that the answer does lie in the extremely fine and uniform microstructure that the steel has, precisely because it lacks the large vanadium and molybdenum carbides. That, combined with the high level of RC hardness that it is capable of seem to be how it achieves what it does. Though, of course I can't speak to that with any authority. My own use of the steel is pretty limited so far. But for what it is, it does seem to perform like the other "super steels" we've gotten used to.

Ah the joy of steel nerdery! The addiction is real.
 
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