S90V - Your experiences

A

Alfazulu

Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
234
I'll admit, I've been wholeheartedly sucked into the super steel marketing. I usually pride myself on being impervious to most marketing, but these knife makers are getting me with the super steels. I think one thing that helps me justify it is reading testing information like that done by Ankerson and others. Given that and my love for the BM 940, I bought a 940-1 a while back. It was just used as a semi-safe queen/going out to dinner knife until about a month ago. After I had it for about 3-4 months, I finally figured I'd start really using it and quit caring about messing it up.

Here are my impressions with the S90V blade:

-It is pretty tough to get truly razor sharp. I can get it sharp to the point that it will smoothly wipe the hair off of my arm, but I cannot get it to pass the hanging hair test. I'll try again soon, but after the first attempt at hanging hair test sharpness, it just didn't get there.

-After sharpening to what I'd consider an 8 out of 10 (0 being having to saw through rope with 20 strokes, and 10 being slicing a hanging hair), I was surprised to find that it apparently lost its very sharp edge rather quickly (according to my usual "sharpness testing outlined below).

-Now it seems to have settled in to an odd level of sharpness that is staying for a long time (more on this below)

I think S90V is causing me to review my personal testing techniques for sharpness. With most knives, I will do the "three finger test", then see how well it catches my finger nail, then if it feels pretty good, see if it shaves. Once a knife loses the shaving sharpness, I start thinking about sharpening, but usually wait until it no longer bites into my nail really well, or at least has several sections of the blade that fail to bite. However, S90V is doing some weird stuff. Usually, when I get to the point of it no longer shaving and having some parts on the blade that don't bite my nail under no pressure, I start noticing a significant loss in cutting performance. That has not been the case with S90V. Even though my traditional methods for probing sharpness are telling me the knife is maybe a 6 out of 10 on my sharpness scale, it's still cutting like an 8-9.

Today there were two things I cut that I expected to struggle with, and it blew my mind. Number one was a 1/2" thick rubber foam mat that I was setting up behind the point of sale counter in a new store our company was opening. I had to cut it to fit behind the counter. It went through it effortlessly, to the point that a coworker was amazed. Then, item two, a Cheez-It bag (come on, you know it's a benchmark). I usually just slice the whole top off, and I find that such plastics are a good gauge of sharpness. It sliced it cleanly with no drag at all. It's just so odd because my finger nail and arm hair are telling me that my knife is relatively dull.

Has anyone else experienced similar results from S90V?
 
What comes to mind is that to pop hair only the very edge has to be sharp.
However for cutting through thicker material the edge geometry itself matters a lot and can even compensate for dullness at the very apex.

I got one knife which is flat ground and from very very thin stock. Even if never sharpened it will keep cutting fruits and vegetables good enough for most people for a very long time even if it doesn't shave anymore. It's called Dünnschliff from Solingen.

Could it be just the blade shape in your case which keeps it cutting?

I also got a few which lose extreme sharpness too fast for my taste and stay acceptably sharp for a looooong time. Similar to you I came up with a test for myself which approximates my use better than shaving and and is repeatable. I simply check how far a blade can pull cut into a peeled banana peel with its own weight. This tests blade geometry as well as apex sharpness well in my opinion.
 
Jens Schuetz said:
What comes to mind is that to pop hair only the very edge has to be sharp.
However for cutting through thicker material the edge geometry itself matters a lot and can even compensate for dullness at the very apex.

I got one knife which is flat ground and from very very thin stock. Even if never sharpened it will keep cutting fruits and vegetables good enough for most people for a very long time even if it doesn't shave anymore. It's called Dünnschliff from Solingen.

Could it be just the blade shape in your case which keeps it cutting?

I also got a few which lose extreme sharpness too fast for my taste and stay acceptably sharp for a looooong time. Similar to you I came up with a test for myself which approximates my use better than shaving and and is repeatable. I simply check how far a blade can pull cut into a peeled banana peel with its own weight. This tests blade geometry as well as apex sharpness well in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Doubt it if it's a 940. They don't have the best cutting geometry.
 
My S90v folders have thin full flat grinds. They get really sharp, but because of the high Vanadium, it is toothy. I can get them to lightly brush down my arm with barely any pressure and it takes off every hair in its path, and stays that way for longer than most of my knives! keeps its hair popping sharpness for a long time! It is a different sharpness though, very aggressive!
It is touchy with sharpening though! I have a very specific way to do it, with each different knife, and it I don't do it that way, does not get sharp and will just run across my arm without popping hairs.
I have had really good cutting/sharpening experiences with 10v and especially K390. They have the edge holding,. but is very easy to sharpen and the toothiness is not present/noticable. Love my S90V knives though!
 
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Both my Yojimbo2 and 940-1 had some slight issues with micro-chipping. Otherwise, enjoyed s90v a lot.

Now my only s90v blades are Shirogorov and they've performed much better than the Spyderco and BM. Not yet had any issues with chipping while using them the same as all my others. Probably comes down to heat treat and geometry. I guess most all blade issues boil down to those factors.rŕrrŕrŕrq
 
ATJ999 said:
My S90v folders have thin full flat grinds. They get really sharp, but because of the high Vanadium, it is toothy. I can get them to lightly brush down my arm with barely any pressure and it takes off every hair in its path, and stays that way for longer than most of my knives! keeps its hair popping sharpness for a long time! It is a different sharpness though, very aggressive!
It is touchy with sharpening though! I have a very specific way to do it, with each different knife, and it I don't do it that way, does not get sharp and will just run across my arm without popping hairs.
I have had really good cutting/sharpening experiences with 10v and especially K390. They have the edge holding,. but ease of sharpening and the toothiness are not so present. Love my S90V knives though!
Click to expand...

I just resharpened it tonight, and got it much sharper. I used a microbevel on the previous edge. I'll see how it does in the next couple of weeks.

I just made a 5" fixed blade in CPM 10V, and am waiting on it to return from heat treating. I am VERY anxious to see how that steel performs. I've heard so much awesome stuff about it, but have never tried it. I am very happy with the S90V, though. I don't care if it doesn't feel sharp according to my usual testing procedures. If it keeps cutting well (like it was), then that's all that matters. We will see how this current sharpening goes.
BluegrassBrian said:
Both my Yojimbo2 and 940-1 had some slight issues with micro-chipping. Otherwise, enjoyed s90v a lot.

Now my only s90v blades are Shirogorov and they've performed much better than the Spyderco and BM. Not yet had any issues with chipping while using them the same as all my others. Probably comes down to heat treat and geometry. I guess most all blade issues boil down to those factors.rŕrrŕrŕrq
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed any micro-chipping yet. Hopefully, that continues!
 
I have had the 940-1 since December 2015, so about 5 months now. First, I do find it very difficult to get what I consider a razor sharp edge. I believe the reason for this is that the cutting edge is very thick. Much thicker for instance than on a spyderco full flat ground knife. I am able to get mine to arm hair shaving sharp but not very easily. I have also learned that it loses its fine edge just as fast as any other steel in the same hardness. However, it just keeps going past that point. While cutting cardboard, my spyderco native5 in s35vn will initially out cut and out last the 940-1 in cutting performance. But then it changes. Suddenly the s35vn will start rapidly losing its cutting capability, whereas the 940-1 keeps going. Eventually the s90v out cuts the s35vn on the native5 but it only started out cutting the native5 after about 150 cuts through cereal box cardboard with each cut being about 3 inches. I find the 940-1 to have more of a utilitarian blade (really thick and long lasting with moderate cutting performance) as opposed to a shorter lasting blade with a keen edge. I would say the native5 is a sprinter and the 940-1 is a marathon runner. I carry my 940-1 more because it is light and thin and I don't notice it in my pocket plus I can use it for food use more effectively than the native5 that is a little short. I get the best results on the 940-1 by using the fine rod, hand held from the spyderco sharpmaker kit. Also, with regard to the s90v steel, it seems to be a very aggressive cutter. Even though the edge is not as fine as on other knives it cuts almost as well and much better than you would be led to believe just by feeling the edge. Mine is never as sharp as I want it, but almost always cuts as well as I want.
 
I have a 940-1, 484-1 and a Military in S90V. I use the Military most often. S90V is my current favorite folder steel simply because of it's outstanding ability to hold a really good working edge.

I experience much the same as described above, I struggle to get the ultra sharp edge I would like on it (I have a WE), but it just cuts and cuts and cuts. It seems like an edge that's not really fine, yet it slices the top off coffee sachets so smoothly (my version of the Cheez-It bag test).
The occasional SM touch up with the fine rods keeps it going for yonks. With lighter use it really seems like it just wont blunt.
 
I concur about the slicing ability of the 940.
I had to reprofile mine to get it to perform like I wanted.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
 
My first super steel was the benchmade 484-1 nakumara and I was not impressed. My second was the Phil Wilson pin from spyderco and it cuts like a dream. What I found was the thickness of Benchmades hurts the apex when cutting and the low hardness aprox 58 HRc hurts it as well. It also has a very thick bevel grind too. Two things you can do. One,is to have it re-ground to make it thinner behind the bevel and reprofile the edge or two,
find another maker. Preferably a custom maker that works in s90v and will make a thin blade with high Hrc. This is where the super steels really shine. Like I said my Benchmade 484 didn't hold an edge long at all and I Love Benchmade. I just get them reground.


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My 940-1 is the same. Hair shaving, not so long. Cardboard cutting goes on for a long time. I've been pleased with it. Not for sure that it is the best steel for a 940.
 
I've had/have four s90v knives.
940-1, 484-1, PM2 CF and Shiro NeOn
All sharp as hell the PM2 was probably the sharpest blade I've ever had.
The Shiro is my sole s90v blade and I NEVER use it.
 
Great luck with my Spyderco Southfork which I used as an all purpose kitchen knife for two years and only had to strop it.
 
OP - It was cool reading your opening post, as I've experienced much the same with a recent knife purchase....a used custom fixed blade with S90V. The knife is about 4 years old-ish, and I'm told has the original edge, which is a polished, though I prefer toothy. Similarly, this knife didn't impress me with the typical tests for scary sharpness, yet when I go to actually use it, ya know, cutting things in real life, it goes thru all of the various media like butter...or air even. And again, it's apparently lived a 4 year life without being sharpened...and it's only been subjected to medium-light use, but still, that's a long damn time. And no, I don't know if or how many times it's been stropped in its past, though I know I haven't touched the edge since I got it a few months ago, & I can't tell even a 1% variance.

I love this blade, & I dig its personality too....it doesn't want to be flashy and showy by splitting hanging hairs or the like, it just wants to go to work every day & stay practically sharp...this blade has a lovely 7" fillet knife and 3 little EDCs to provide for. It's the working man's super steel.
 
My only S90V knife is a modded Spyderco Military; I love this steel personally. This knife has seen a lot of use and just doesn't really seem to dull much IMHO. Mine has a thin convex edge FWIW.


25258946845_9547dba1b2_z.jpg
 
If you are using a supersteel, you should use it with a pretty thin dimension behind the edge if you want to get the full potential out of it. We are generally so scared that our expensive knives are going to chip or break these days that we overdo the thickness, especially since most supersteels are very tough and hold up to use (as long as it is actually cutting) far beyond what we will give them credit for.

Something like S90V needs a rather thin edge, so a full flat grind off of thinner blade stock is very good for it, and then sharpening at 15dps (or sometimes even narrower) with a single bevel is usually advisable.

That being said, S90V has massive carbides in it compared to most other steels, so it will always be a little toothy, and trying to get it to a super fine edge is not going to be a good idea in general. If you finish S90V to 1000-grit and then lightly strop it to clean up the edge a little, you will get the best edge for the amount of effort you put in from my experience.
Once you put a very fine edge on S90V, it will lose that keen edge rather quickly as the softer matrix of the steel wears away and the large carbides become exposed again, making the edge toothy. However, once it has formed that toothy edge, it will hold it for a very long time. That is the strength of S90V. It is NOT a steel for a fine edge (M390 is much better for that), but it will cut through something like rope or other fibrous or rough material VERY aggressively, and will keep doing it for a very long time.

In general, Benchmade does a terrible job of grinding S90V, as it is much harder to grind than almost all of the other steels they work with, and they already have a problem maintaining a thin dimension behind their edges, so these two issues come together to give you knives that really don't do the steel justice in 99% of the case.
Spyderco does a much better job in general with S90V, and their Full-Fliat-Grind is much better for the edge geometry as well. The Phil Wilson Spyderco in S90V is a great knife if you want to see how S90V should perform, without having to buy a custom knife with good geometry. And yes, if you can find one, a PM2 or Military are also very good in S90V steel.
 
Alfazulu said:
I'll admit, I've been wholeheartedly sucked into the super steel marketing. I usually pride myself on being impervious to most marketing, but these knife makers are getting me with the super steels. I think one thing that helps me justify it is reading testing information like that done by Ankerson and others. Given that and my love for the BM 940, I bought a 940-1 a while back. It was just used as a semi-safe queen/going out to dinner knife until about a month ago. After I had it for about 3-4 months, I finally figured I'd start really using it and quit caring about messing it up.

Here are my impressions with the S90V blade:

-It is pretty tough to get truly razor sharp. I can get it sharp to the point that it will smoothly wipe the hair off of my arm, but I cannot get it to pass the hanging hair test. I'll try again soon, but after the first attempt at hanging hair test sharpness, it just didn't get there.

-After sharpening to what I'd consider an 8 out of 10 (0 being having to saw through rope with 20 strokes, and 10 being slicing a hanging hair), I was surprised to find that it apparently lost its very sharp edge rather quickly (according to my usual "sharpness testing outlined below).

-Now it seems to have settled in to an odd level of sharpness that is staying for a long time (more on this below)

I think S90V is causing me to review my personal testing techniques for sharpness. With most knives, I will do the "three finger test", then see how well it catches my finger nail, then if it feels pretty good, see if it shaves. Once a knife loses the shaving sharpness, I start thinking about sharpening, but usually wait until it no longer bites into my nail really well, or at least has several sections of the blade that fail to bite. However, S90V is doing some weird stuff. Usually, when I get to the point of it no longer shaving and having some parts on the blade that don't bite my nail under no pressure, I start noticing a significant loss in cutting performance. That has not been the case with S90V. Even though my traditional methods for probing sharpness are telling me the knife is maybe a 6 out of 10 on my sharpness scale, it's still cutting like an 8-9.

Today there were two things I cut that I expected to struggle with, and it blew my mind. Number one was a 1/2" thick rubber foam mat that I was setting up behind the point of sale counter in a new store our company was opening. I had to cut it to fit behind the counter. It went through it effortlessly, to the point that a coworker was amazed. Then, item two, a Cheez-It bag (come on, you know it's a benchmark). I usually just slice the whole top off, and I find that such plastics are a good gauge of sharpness. It sliced it cleanly with no drag at all. It's just so odd because my finger nail and arm hair are telling me that my knife is relatively dull.

Has anyone else experienced similar results from S90V?
Click to expand...

And yes, your method for testing sharpness won't work well on S90V. It works like a microscopic saw, and cuts through things very aggressively by using the hardness of it's carbides. Anything that has some body to it or is designed to fail when torn will not stand a chance against S90V.
That is why the rubber mat, which likely has a good amount of body to it, was easy to cut with the micro-saw properties of the steel. The bag was cut easily because the carbides are able to bite and cut the plastic very easily because of the nature of the material.

I often find now that feeling the actual edge with the pads of my fingers (yes, you have to be very careful with this), and feeling the edge ever so slightly bite into your skin is the best way to tell if the edge is sharp. You have to get used to what different types of edges should feel like, but once you do, it is a very reliable way to test.
 
It is some kickin' high-end steel; hard to sharpen, but stays keen when honed with a practiced hand.

Heat treat of your flavor is the variable.

Great stuff if done right


Best

mqqn
 
It's good to hear that most of you guys have experienced the same kind of results as I have. I am very impressed with it, but bet, as many of you guys noted, that I would like it even more with a thinner blade geometry. I guess that settles it, I'm just going to have to make a knife out of S90V. I've been planning to replace my crappy set of kitchen knives with some homemade ones, so maybe I'll use S90V. It should be a good steel for kitchen knives.
 
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