Sak evolution ergonomics

[jon83]

Hey guys, I'm sort of new to this. I have not bought a SAK other than the classic in over 20 years. Recently I was looking at the wood handle ones online the Evolution wood 14 seemed like a great balance between weight and feature set. The evolution line in general seems really good and I've been meaning to try out the knives with the fatter wenger blades and serrated scissors as well as the models with the locking blades.

Today I went to a Victorinox store and tried on out. It was even prettier in person but rather disappointing that I did not like the way it felt or handled in my hand. Nothing wrong with the design or workmanship, the knife is totally fine but it just doesn't feel as good to me in my hand compared to the 91mm SAK's.

I've only handled the 85mm evo knives once. I would like to ask those of you with more experience your opinions on this. Maybe it's something to get used to after a while? I picked up the wood Huntsman and an alox Pioneer and both instantly felt better in my hands. I don't even have large hands so i don't know why 6mm difference is such an issue, maybe it has to do with the proportions.

Any advice or input on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[jazzz]

I like how the Evos feel, but they are wider in the pocket a tad. I'd go with what feels good to you. There are lots of models.

 

[redsparrow]

I'm with jazzz on this. I like the way evos feel! I didn't have to get use to them, liked them first time I picked one up. I'm sure anyone could grow accustomed but why not go with what feels best now. Or better yet get both!

 

[jmh33]

Got an EvoGrip 18.. Feels good in hand to me!! I have lg hands..
John

 

[comis]

I think it all boils down to personal preference and whether you would like to try something different. Many tools of these two brands are quite different in design, to me, Wenger and Victorinox are distant relatives but never close enough to be called twins.

Btw, if you like the tool sets in S14, I trust that you probably would have also looked into 91mm Victorinox Climber as well? What do you think of that?

 

[jon83]

Thanks everyone, I'm not going to give up on it so quickly. I'll return to the shop and give it another try. The funny thing is I have no problem with the swiss classics or rambler which I use regularly. It's the contour or the bump on the grip as well as the size that somehow makes it difficult for me to handle, I'm not sure where the correct thumb placement is.

I think it all boils down to personal preference and whether you would like to try something different. Many tools of these two brands are quite different in design, to me, Wenger and Victorinox are distant relatives but never close enough to be called twins.

Btw, if you like the tool sets in S14, I trust that you probably would have also looked into 91mm Victorinox Climber as well? What do you think of that?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm looking at the climber as well but not for my next purchase as I don't want to go over budget. I forgot to add to my original post that I am looking to get one Alox and one wood knife, having never owned either finish. I have a Work Champ that I've had for 16 years and a Spartan for over 20 years. I'm not an outdoor guy so they don't get a lot of use, I one or the other with me when I travel and to minimal stuff around the house when I'm too lazy to reach for the toolbox. I'm really just looking to try out the variants I have not owned. The Evolution 14 wood seems like a great option but if not that, I might get the huntsman wood. I would prefer something with a pair of scissors instead of a wood saw, I can't recall the last time I had to use a wood saw for anything in the last 20 years. As far as the Alox models, I've got my eye on the Minichamp Alox, since my rambler got confiscated at an airport the last time i forgot to place it in my checked luggage.

 

[Sawl Goodman]

I have an Evowood 14. A beautiful knife with a good length, and for me very comfortable in my medium size hand. My thumb seems to fall naturally in the hollows of the scales and the corkscrew doesn't dig into my palm. I prefer the shape of the blade to that of the 91mm Vics. The Wenger/Delemont scissors polarize views but for me they work well and are untold better than no scissors at all, plus they have no Vic style spring to break. They do leave a rougher edge on fingernails however, so the file is necessary. I keep the Evowood as a desk tool as I don't like to carry anything thicker than a Camper.

One thing to remember is that if you buy a current "walnut" scaled SAK and an alox 58mm you won't have tweezers or toothpick on either model. The older "hardwood" Vic generation does though and are also walnut, as far as I know. I just came into a used Hardwood Spartan and am delighted with the feel, fit, and finish of the scales. Much nicer than cellidor.

As far as I know, of the 91mm range only the Spartan, Hiker, Huntsman, and Swisschamp are available with wooden scales. Strange that the Climber isn't included as it's such a popular model. But if you have say a Minichamp in addition to a Spartan, the scissors are covered.

Bummer about your Rambler. I lost mine briefly a while ago and a stand in Classic just wasn't the same. The Rambler's blade and scissors open in the same direction and the
Phillips SD on the combo tool is brilliant. You wouldn't believe my relief at finding it. I bought a backup immediately!

 

[Sawl Goodman]

I think it all boils down to personal preference and whether you would like to try something different. Many tools of these two brands are quite different in design, to me, Wenger and Victorinox are distant relatives but never close enough to be called twins.

Btw, if you like the tool sets in S14, I trust that you probably would have also looked into 91mm Victorinox Climber as well? What do you think of that?

You're right about the Wenger tools but the newer Victorinox Delemont Evolution range has the same can opener, awl, and T&T as regular Vics.

 

[22-rimfire]

In general, SAKs are not known for their ergonomics. I don't think they are intended for marathon cutting sessions. I'm okay with the Evo line. Maybe you are expecting too much with a larger SAK relative to your experience with a classic or that size which are tiny.

The larger hunter series certainly feel better in the hand. They are a lot more expensive.

 

[jon83]

Thanks everyone. I went back twice more to check it out and it's not as bad as I had first thought. Still I felt that the Huntsman was better overall in my hand compared to the 85mm Evowood 14. The extra layer did not really add that much thickness over the evowood so I decided to go for that.
Today at the store they only had one Huntsman wood and I was not happy about the one side of the scale not matching the pattern on the other so I went with the Evowood instead and I don't regret it at all. The handling is starting to grow on me despite not being able to fully grip the knife it feels good in my hand. I'm glad i went with it and I also bought a Minichamp alox which I really liked the first time I handled it.

I will post pics from my phone shortly.

Took this on the way home.

My Workchamp which I've had for 16 years or so, my main knife that I bring with me on holidays and trips. I also have a 23 year old spartan lying around somewhere.

My current EDC

I bought the minichamp alox to replace my older EDC, a leatherman Style PS. My intention was initially to get a new rambler to replace my old one that got confiscated at an airport but when I handled the Alox minichamp it felt really good and I decided to go for it instead.

Blade comparison

New keychain EDC. Sorry for the dirty key pics, these are a backup pair and I have not got around to cleaning the tape used by the landlord from when I first moved in a few months ago...

As you can see, the Style PS is longer and wider. I feel like it has a better overall balance despite being more or less the same weight (Style ps 41g, minichamp alox 39g). The minichamp being more compact actually feels heavier and I'm having second thoughts on whether to keep it as my keychain EDC. For now I'll try and see if it's just a matter of getting used to it.

I'm really liking the evo line and particularly the wood scales. I'll probably get an S14 with the locking blade as I don't imagine using the wood one too much for anything other than looking at it and playing around with it cutting paper and rubber bands.

Something I've noticed, maybe a QC thing or me just being extra picky. The first two Alox Minichamps I looked at had slight issues, one had the red paint on the shield a little more to one side than the other, the next one I looked at had a silver spot in the middle of the red area on the shield, the third one and the one I took (the display model) was just about right.
Also with the wood models, I noticed that some of them have scales that don't match well, some have slightly different shades, and others have differing patterns of wood. The logo on some of them also don't feel as though they have been cut out as well or as cleanly. That's only if you look real close.

 

[jacksterp]

Pictures aren't working for me!

 

[jon83]

Pictures aren't working for me!

I'm using Dropbox since I can't seem to directly post them on this site. Can you or any other member suggest another alternative pls.

 

[jacksterp]

I've used Imgur with great success.

Post your images there and then copy the BBCode link and paste that link in the thread.

 

[jon83]

What's a bbcode? I usually just copy image adress and paste it in the little window.

I'm going to try that here with photos i just uploaded to imgur.

EDIT: Seems to have worked, I can see the pics on my phone. I'll repost the captions on this thread instead of cleaning up the previous one.

Took this on the way home.

My Workchamp which I've had for 16 years or so, my main knife that I bring with me on holidays and trips. I also have a 23 year old spartan lying around somewhere.

My current EDC

I bought the minichamp alox to replace my older EDC, a leatherman Style PS. My intention was initially to get a new rambler to replace my old one that got confiscated at an airport but when I handled the Alox minichamp it felt really good and I decided to go for it instead.

Blade comparison

New keychain EDC. Sorry for the dirty key pics, these are a backup pair and I have not got around to cleaning the tape used by the landlord from when I first moved in a few months ago...

 

[Sawl Goodman]

Thanks everyone. I went back twice more to check it out and it's not as bad as I had first thought. Still I felt that the Huntsman was better overall in my hand compared to the 85mm Evowood 14. The extra layer did not really add that much thickness over the evowood so I decided to go for that.
Today at the store they only had one Huntsman wood and I was not happy about the one side of the scale not matching the pattern on the other so I went with the Evowood instead and I don't regret it at all. The handling is starting to grow on me despite not being able to fully grip the knife it feels good in my hand. I'm glad i went with it and I also bought a Minichamp alox which I really liked the first time I handled it.

I'm really liking the evo line and particularly the wood scales. I'll probably get an S14 with the locking blade as I don't imagine using the wood one too much for anything other than looking at it and playing around with it cutting paper and rubber bands.

Something I've noticed, maybe a QC thing or me just being extra picky. The first two Alox Minichamps I looked at had slight issues, one had the red paint on the shield a little more to one side than the other, the next one I looked at had a silver spot in the middle of the red area on the shield, the third one and the one I took (the display model) was just about right.
Also with the wood models, I noticed that some of them have scales that don't match well, some have slightly different shades, and others have differing patterns of wood. The logo on some of them also don't feel as though they have been cut out as well or as cleanly. That's only if you look real close.

Nice one, glad you like your Evowood.

Yeah, it's annoying that wooden scales sometimes don't match well on the same knife. I do think Vic could do a better job here. I'd never buy a blister pack Vic Wood because you can't see the back scale. My hardwood Spartan's scales looked fairly even in colour until I polished them with oil and the back one became redder than the front one. My Evowood's scales match though.

I have a Wenger with a locking blade. The lock release is brilliant, placed just right for your first finger and is easy to press. But I'd never carry the knife in my pocket with keys because the release gets tangled in them.

 

[jon83]

, glad you like your Evowood.

Yeah, it's annoying that wooden scales sometimes don't match well on the same knife. I do think Vic could do a better job here. I'd never buy a blister pack Vic Wood because you can't see the back scale. My hardwood Spartan's scales looked fairly even in colour until I polished them with oil and the back one became redder than the front one. My Evowood's scales match though.

Thanks. I'm very happy with this knife. I'm hoping to find a use for it in my day to day, something light and not expose the wood to too many things that might damage it. I'm not an expert but the wood, while not delicate, does not seem so robust to me. I've also noticed one of the scales has a hollow sound when I flick it with my finger. I'm sure it's fine, there are thousands of these out there and I've yet to come across any threads from anyone complaining about the the quality of the wood.

The evenness of the scales on the other hand is a whole different thing. I've been thinking about oiling them to add some protection but that's one of my concerns. What happens if they come out uneven.
I'm not sure how they allow this to happen, I've seen more than a few from just having a look around the last few weeks. I'm all for a bit of character in my wooden products but totally mismatched sides seem like more of a qc slip up to me. Who knows, maybe there are some folks out there who actually like that.

I do have a slight issue with the logo of the wood scales that I've noticed. Within the logo it seems there are small raised bumps, I don't know what they are called but I ran my fingernail through them which I guess caused the tips of the bumps to bend and now it looks odd with slightly different color to the rest of the bumps. Sorry for my crappy explanation of it but you can see in my pics, there are what appear to be discolorations in the cross of the wood scaled knife. Little blotches that appear lighter than the rest. It doesn't look so bad in person and only really shows up in pictures, a bit of an issue if you intend to take lots of pics of your knife.
I don't know why they did it this way, it's easy to get dirt and stuff caught in it which is what I initially thought the little blotches were and why I decided to run my fingernail through it making it worse. Adds to the character I guess, hopefully they will get darker again as the wood ages and not stand out so much.

 

[jon83]

While I've been enjoying owning the Evowood 14, I've been too scared to actually use it. I have considered replacing it with something else but it is too pretty to part with. Now it's time for me to buy something that I won't mind getting wet or exposed to food oils and juices or any other stuff that might ruin the wood and I would like some help.

Looking for suggestions now from the same 85mm evo line. I must have a locking blade and I don't want it to be too heavy so I'm thinking of three models, the S14, same as my current wood model that I recently purchased, the Evogrip S17, which adds a saw that I will never use, and the S18, same as the 17, there is an added saw but replaces the corkscrew with a philips screwdriver, which due to it's positioning and size, I also will not use much. The S18 also comes in yellow which I like. I don't mind the added weight of the S17 or 18 over the S14, as long as it's under 100g, I'm good. Additionally, all these non wood versions include a toothpick and a pair of tweezers.

I'm fine with the S14 but I'm wondering if the added rubber grip on the Evogrip models makes them more rugged. Less area on the scales to scratch up also is appealing. I was not a fan of the looks at first but I'm starting to warm up to the design. I only had a chance to look at one briefly before I had considered it seriously as an option.

I'm mainly wondering how the rubber holds up to regular use and how well it holds up over time. Generally I stay away from from anything with rubber handles because the rubber thins or melts or becomes sticky over time, something worth considering in a product that is expected to last for decades.

 

[Sawl Goodman]

Because you like your Evowood's toolset and feel, the S14 looks like it'll fit your needs best. I've never held an Evogrip but I'm sure the regular red scales will be fine.

 

[jon83]

Yeah, it's the most practical option but I do like the yellow scales on the s18. I had a look earlier today, there's really not that much difference in the thickness. Also, I get a discount that gets me the S18 for around the same price as the S14 (same discount gets the s14 cheaper as well). Not sure what I'll end up with.

 

[jon83]

I went ahead and got the yellow s18 and I'm quite happy with it. I did initially have an issue which I posted about with the rubber grips showing indentations and markings which seemed to be from the manufacturing process. Fortunately for me they had newly arrived one yesterday when I went to buy it. The new one had nice clean rubber grips and did not have the indentations or markings the first two had.
Of the three they had in stock, I did notice different amounts of blade play in the locked position with the blade. The one with the least amount of blade play, actually close to none, unfortunately exhibited a grinding sensation when opening the blade, something I experienced recently with one of the tools on the Manager I had recently bought, that caused me to exchange it and also something I noticed on one of the tools on my recently acquired Evowood 14. I don't plan on using my evowood much so it's not an issue.
The S18 I took home, the newest one has the most amount of blade play but no issues with grinding or tool 'rub' when opening the tools. I consider it a bit of a compromise but not a huge one. Any one of these things would not have bothered me but the fact that I had experienced different degrees of blade play, some tool rub and cosmetic issues on three of the same model, as well as having noticed them on other models, sort of makes me wonder about their quality control.

One issue when I got home was the scissors, in the open position did not freely open and close and kept getting stuck despite there being oil on them. I thought it was a bad spring but adding more oil seems to have fixed it. Compared to my evowood, the scissors on the evogrip are just as responsive but there is noticeably less tension in them. Maybe I'm being overly pedantic but this is another thing that makes me wonder about their qc.

Anyway, did not seem to sound so negative, I'm quite happy with the S18. The toolset on the S14 would have been sufficient and the S17 has a corkscrew that I can actually use instead of the phillips but the yellow s18 is just looks so nice.

One thing I would like to ask about, does anyone know why the scales on the evogrip models seem to stick out more or protrude beyond the knife. The edges of the scales around the whole knife stick out and are not flush with the knife like on the classic vic models. I can feel the plastic edges when handling the knife, it's the one thing I don't like about this model, it feels cheap like they didn't fit it properly or something.




Edit: added some pics
Next to the evowood

Thickness comparison

That last thing I was talking about where the edges of the plastic scales extend beyond the knife. Seems more prominent on this compared to the evo Wood.