-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
San Mai III® Cold Steel Master Tanto
- Thread starter mamba
- Start date
San Mai III is Cold Steel's super fancy word for laminated steel. Basically they take a low-grade steel and a mediocre steel and sandwich it so that the low-grade is on the outside and the mid-grade is in the center (for better edge durability). And then they call it "San Mai III" and jack the price through the roof.
Not that it's horrible stuff; that's just the way I see Cold Steel's "San Mai:" nothing premium, yet it's sold as such.
Edit: I just looked up the "Master Tanto," and it appears to be VG-1 steel that's laminated in the center. It's an okay steel, but it's not special. Don't let the fancy name "San Mai III" get to you.
Not that it's horrible stuff; that's just the way I see Cold Steel's "San Mai:" nothing premium, yet it's sold as such.
Edit: I just looked up the "Master Tanto," and it appears to be VG-1 steel that's laminated in the center. It's an okay steel, but it's not special. Don't let the fancy name "San Mai III" get to you.
mongomondo
SUPPRESSING FIRE
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2006
- Messages
- 3,290
"San Mai I" was so much better. It really lost its appeal after the heartless money grabbing sequels.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,748
a cold steel natchez is the sharpest knife and holds a edge,i said sharp..
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2006
- Messages
- 7,132
Welcome to the forums, Mamba!
Other than the fact that there is no such thing as a 'low grade' or 'mediocre' steel, I would suggest that you elicit some opinions from people that actually own the knife. The heat treating process that a particular steel undergoes is at least and arguably more important than the composition of the steel itself. An example of this is Buck knives, who use a lot of 420HC steel in their knives. A 'steel snob' may look down their nose at 420HC, all the while ignoring the fact that 420HC as tempered by Buck/Paul Bos, will take a fantastic edge and keep it long enough to dress a deer or two.
It is good to do some research on a potential purchase, but like all research, sometimes you just get junk information that must be discarded to find the good stuff.
Other than the fact that there is no such thing as a 'low grade' or 'mediocre' steel, I would suggest that you elicit some opinions from people that actually own the knife. The heat treating process that a particular steel undergoes is at least and arguably more important than the composition of the steel itself. An example of this is Buck knives, who use a lot of 420HC steel in their knives. A 'steel snob' may look down their nose at 420HC, all the while ignoring the fact that 420HC as tempered by Buck/Paul Bos, will take a fantastic edge and keep it long enough to dress a deer or two.
It is good to do some research on a potential purchase, but like all research, sometimes you just get junk information that must be discarded to find the good stuff.
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,473
You can get three RAT Cutlery knives, or 2 Bark Rivers and even a Busse for the price of a single "San Mai III":barf: Master Tanto, so why bother? 
Hi,
Just to clarify, what type of steel is San Mai III®. I was quite impressed on its flexibility in the video demonstration.
I am interested in learning which steel has the following criteria: Exceptional toughness, holds a good edge/point, flexibility similar to the Cold Steel Master Tanto.
Are there any other brands/models?
Cheers.
Just to clarify, what type of steel is San Mai III®. I was quite impressed on its flexibility in the video demonstration.
I am interested in learning which steel has the following criteria: Exceptional toughness, holds a good edge/point, flexibility similar to the Cold Steel Master Tanto.
Are there any other brands/models?
Cheers.
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,473
INFI steel by Busse Combat or SR-101 by Swamp Rat spank the living s*!@# out of "San Mai", it's not even funny. Not to mention CPM-M4 and CPM-3V by Crucible.
"San Mai III" is NOT a type of steel, it's a marketing name for a common laminated steel made of a core of mid-grade Japanese steel (VG-1) surrounded by a cheaper, softer steel. By the way, this so called "San Mai" is not exceptionally tough nor it holds a great edge for longer than any common cutlery stainless steel. Unless you think something like 440C and AUS-8 is top notch stuff.
That's what I tried to say, but according to some, "there is no such thing as a mid-grade or cheap steel"
Whatever. You can't save everyone from falling for the Cold Steel marketing campaign.
- Joined
- Jan 4, 1999
- Messages
- 3,000
Laminated blades are common in Japan. It's even common in Scandinavia. One of the advantages is combining the strengths of different steels. For example putting a hard thin layer within a wrapper of softer steel provides a good combination of edge retention and toughness. It also sharpens faster because the hard layer is thinner. The Japanese call these laminations warikomi. There are some outstanding blades made in this manner.
San Mai is Cold Steel's trade name. It doesn't indicate any particular types of steels. But the construction method is warikomi and, as I said, this is an effective way to make a blade. I don't know what steels CS uses in these knives or whether they are the same steels for different knives or even the same steels at different times. Wrapping it up in a generic trade name makes it possible for them to use whatever whenever. They did that fairly often in the Carbon V days (another CS trade name.)
The CS warikomi blades have always been good ones. They only use this construction method on their better products. No need to worry about getting a good product with it.
San Mai is Cold Steel's trade name. It doesn't indicate any particular types of steels. But the construction method is warikomi and, as I said, this is an effective way to make a blade. I don't know what steels CS uses in these knives or whether they are the same steels for different knives or even the same steels at different times. Wrapping it up in a generic trade name makes it possible for them to use whatever whenever. They did that fairly often in the Carbon V days (another CS trade name.)
The CS warikomi blades have always been good ones. They only use this construction method on their better products. No need to worry about getting a good product with it.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2005
- Messages
- 1,836
Laminated steel is more than just a marketing gimick (although I would not deny that CS partakes in more than its share of marketing gimicks!), its a legitimate attempt to combine the properties of two different types of metal in one blade. One of the benefits of laminated steel is that you don't need to use exotic steel alloys, as each layer does not need to posess all the requirements of an exceptional blade (edge holding, tensile strength, etc., etc.) unlike a single-steel blade. On the other hand, even if the blade is made of inexpensive component steels, the process of creating the laminated blade blank itself increases the cost of the knife.
There are a number of respected knife makers like Spyderco and Fällkniven who use laminated steels on some of their knives and they all cost more than the coresponding single steel knives, yet no one seems to suggest that they are attempting to perpetrate some sort of marketing hoax with their laminated blades.
I've got a couple of CS San Mai knives (including a Master Tanto), and I was very satisfied with them. Are they equivalent to the best of the modern super-steels? Probably not, but they are IMO a noticable improvment over the individual component steels of the laminate. It's a case of the whole being better than the sum of the parts.
Are they equivalent to the best of the modern super-steels? Probably not, but they are IMO a noticable improvment over the individual component steels of the laminate. It's a case of the whole being better than the sum of the parts.
That's all I'm saying.
Nobody said VG-1 was low-grade.
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,473
Laminated steel is more than just a marketing gimick (although I would not deny that CS partakes in more than its share of marketing gimicks!), its a legitimate attempt to combine the properties of two different types of metal in one blade. One of the benefits of laminated steel is that you don't need to use exotic steel alloys, as each layer does not need to posess all the requirements of an exceptional blade (edge holding, tensile strength, etc., etc.) unlike a single-steel blade. On the other hand, even if the blade is made of inexpensive component steels, the process of creating the laminated blade blank itself increases the cost of the knife.
There are a number of respected knife makers like Spyderco and Fällkniven who use laminated steels on some of their knives and they all cost more than the coresponding single steel knives, yet no one seems to suggest that they are attempting to perpetrate some sort of marketing hoax with their laminated blades.
I've got a couple of CS San Mai knives (including a Master Tanto), and I was very satisfied with them. Are they equivalent to the best of the modern super-steels? Probably not, but they are IMO a noticable improvment over the individual component steels of the laminate. It's a case of the whole being better than the sum of the parts.
Sorry, but Spyderco and Fallkniven's laminates are truly the latest high-end materials available [they use; respectively: ZDP-189 and 3G] and their target market are not Mall Ninjas and Armchair Commandoes. (real Military Operators, Law Enforcement Officers and SAR Teams swear by these brands).
Nobody is saying that CS laminates are pure junk, but the way they advertise them-- as though they were modern versions of the Excalibur, possesing magical powers and being above anything else on earth and beyond-- and the price they ask for them, is just laughable. To say the least...
Hey, but if you are happy about paying custom prices on mass produced knives using common materials, it's not my money...
Last edited:
San= 3, Mai is a counter used for flat things. So it literally means '3 layer'. 1 outer layer, 1 inner (hard) layer, the other outer layer.
And Warikomi is the process. The verb warikomu means to 'cut in', 'push, force or squeeze in'. As an adjective, it becomes warikomi.
Kaizen1
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Messages
- 6,227
There are some Cold Steel knives that seem to be outstanding deals for the price. I just received a CS Spartan and it seems to be of a very high quality for the price I paid. That being said, I don't personally think that the Master Tanto is one of those great deals considering the price. This isn't the Master Tanto, but to give you a feel for what competitors to CS are capable of, here are two videos to compare for bending tests:
CS Katana (0:08 for lowest part of the bend):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzX9GZ3qKE
Swamp Rat Rodent Waki (check out 2:28 for bending):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRnVY9qLCEE
Granted, you should consider price differences:
MSRP for the CS Wakazashi: $459.99
MSRP for the CS Katana: $549.99
MSRP for SW Rodent Waki: $385
Even though CS's MSRPs are higher, they will go for less for street price and the secondary market. I'd say they go for about $80 less than the Rodent Waki, so the Rodent Waki is in all practical terms, more expensive.
The point of this is that CS tends to market themselves as being the only ones capable of producing the "toughness" that they exhibit in their videos. This couldn't be further from the truth, at least regarding their fixed blades. The Demko Tri-Ad lock on their folders seems to be legitimately uber-tough for a folder in just about any price range, as far as I can tell from the videos.
If you just like the way the Master Tanto looks and you have the means, I say go for it. Just don't buy it thinking that its performance can't be duplicated or surpassed by CS's competitors.
Hope this helps.
CS Katana (0:08 for lowest part of the bend):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzX9GZ3qKE
Swamp Rat Rodent Waki (check out 2:28 for bending):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRnVY9qLCEE
Granted, you should consider price differences:
MSRP for the CS Wakazashi: $459.99
MSRP for the CS Katana: $549.99
MSRP for SW Rodent Waki: $385
Even though CS's MSRPs are higher, they will go for less for street price and the secondary market. I'd say they go for about $80 less than the Rodent Waki, so the Rodent Waki is in all practical terms, more expensive.
The point of this is that CS tends to market themselves as being the only ones capable of producing the "toughness" that they exhibit in their videos. This couldn't be further from the truth, at least regarding their fixed blades. The Demko Tri-Ad lock on their folders seems to be legitimately uber-tough for a folder in just about any price range, as far as I can tell from the videos.
If you just like the way the Master Tanto looks and you have the means, I say go for it. Just don't buy it thinking that its performance can't be duplicated or surpassed by CS's competitors.
Hope this helps.
You know there's alot of cold steel bashing that goes on around here Lynn Thompson can be a little much. You just have to look past the overwieght /short shorts/high socks thing . I own alot of knives busse, crk, emerson, strider ect. and I can say this for certain of all the cold steel knives I have owned handled or used which is quite a few. NOT ONE has been anything but solid and of good quality for the price that was paid for it(their push knives are pretty hard to beat without spending ALOT more). That being said I have never had a san mai 3 or any cs over a hundred bucks or so. But I have ALOT of buddies who carry cs fixed blades overseas srk's and the like and it is a damn fine fixed blade. Tough as nails good ergos, nice sheath, for under 75 bucks it's hard to find a better deal.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2007
- Messages
- 1,007
I keep promising myself that I won't respond to anymore CS bashing but then I read boneheaded comments like some of the ones above and I lose it. I have the Master Tanto and the 12 inch blade tanto as well as the Taipan and the Outdoorsman. The latter two aren't San Mai but are made in the same style although they are [Gasp!] 'only' Aus 8 steel.
All 4 knives are beautifully made with equally well made sheaths. I don't know what is with North American steel snob weinees but in Europe some excellent ,quite expensive knives are made out of 440c which I believe is quite similar to Aus-8.
Perhaps these CS knives are the same price as Busse in the US but here in Canada Busse would be way more expensive.
In any case the 4 CS knives I've mentioned are ,IMO, way too pretty to dick around with in the bush.
If you want a camping knife [ I hate camping but it may be something steel snob weinees love to do ] why not buy a Kabar Becker Bowie ? cheap and very tough as far as I know.
All 4 knives are beautifully made with equally well made sheaths. I don't know what is with North American steel snob weinees but in Europe some excellent ,quite expensive knives are made out of 440c which I believe is quite similar to Aus-8.
Perhaps these CS knives are the same price as Busse in the US but here in Canada Busse would be way more expensive.
In any case the 4 CS knives I've mentioned are ,IMO, way too pretty to dick around with in the bush.
If you want a camping knife [ I hate camping but it may be something steel snob weinees love to do ] why not buy a Kabar Becker Bowie ? cheap and very tough as far as I know.