San Mai laminated steel

A

AshesFall

Joined
Jul 16, 2019
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Now I'm familiar with the process of the harder steel core being sandwiched in between two softer steel slabs (cold steel and fallkniven just to name a few), but my question is how many of the people in this forum actually think this process actually works to make these knives superior in toughness while retaining good edge retention and decent stain resistance? This process in theory should make the knife the ultimate all around do everything knife right? Since the process makes it good in basically every area a knife steel should be, this should make the knife a superior knife that has be worth the cost right? I have the cold steel SRK in San Mai and I myself have no complaints on the steel this knife uses as it works great for most needs and the cost to me is justified, but I just thought I'd get others opinions on this steel process and am wondering how many see it as a superior process or just another gimmick to sell knives and sucker people out of their hard earned cash.
 
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1) San Mai.

2) There is no such thing as " ultimate all around do everything."

3) And its not a gimmick. You get a tougher knife with better edge retention.

4) You were suckered out of your hard earned cash, were you not?
 
marcinek said:
1) San Mai.

2) There is no such thing as " ultimate all around do everything."

3) And its not a gimmick. You get a tougher knife with better edge retention.

4) You were suckered out of your hard earned cash, were you not?
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1) Thank you and is corrected.

2) I completely agree.

3) This is very true and I've noticed this in my cold steel SRK.

4) Not at all, but I was wondering how many people actually felt that they were.

Thanks for the reply, opinion and making me aware of my misspelling. Much appreciated.
 
Laminated blades have been around for a long time. Brusletto was doing it when Harry Morseth started using their blades shortly after WWII, and Helle also has laminated blades. John
 
AshesFall said:
4) Not at all, but I was wondering how many people actually felt that they were.
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I guess I'm not entirely following.

You want to know IF anybody thinks laminated steel is a gimmick and why, correct? Even though you think it's great and have explained why it is.

AshesFall said:
This knife doesn't hit all your marks, but the Cold Steel SRK in San Mia steel (VG 10 core and edge with 2 slabs of 420j2 on the outside for extra toughness and corrosion resistance). I have this knife and it's a great value for a lot of knife. Tough, great rust resistance, good edge retention and has a beautiful polished satin finish.
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marcinek said:
I guess I'm not entirely following.

You want to know IF anybody thinks laminated steel is a gimmick and why, correct? Even though you think it's great and have explained why it is.
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In a nutshell yes,. Sorry, when I started writing the thread my mind was thinking all over the place and I do tend to write more than I have to, but I'll try simplifying questions in my future threads. But yes I would mainly like to know if anyone out there that owns and uses a knife in laminated steel has any dislikes about it or thinks it's a total gimmick. Also people that love laminated steel could pitch in too with what they love about it. It was for my own curiosity I suppose, but I thought it would be a good thread for some feedback on laminated steel (likes/dislikes) as well as for informational purposes.
 
Don't think many would consider it a gimmick per se, but with all the great modern steels available these days, not sure it offers the performance boost it once did.
 
John A. Larsen said:
Laminated blades have been around for a long time. Brusletto was doing it when Harry Morseth started using their blades shortly after WWII, and Helle also has laminated blades. John
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Very off topic, but thanks for bringing Morseth up. Always nice to discover Norwegian expats doing cool stuff.
 
:) The basic concept of the San Mai ,"sandwich" is ancient and well proven as effective .

But it depends , of course , upon the specific steel types used and how well the HT and all is accomplished .

Many users also just like the aesthetic appeal . ;)
 
John A. Larsen said:
Laminated blades have been around for a long time. Brusletto was doing it when Harry Morseth started using their blades shortly after WWII, and Helle also has laminated blades. John
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Goes back thousands of years. In recent history, until energy became cheaper and therefore steel costs went down this was also used as a cost saving measure, with the higher carbon content steel in the middle. I believe Doc Holiday's knife was made this way. Cheaper steel was used for the outer layers, holding down costs.
Similar results can be achieved through differential hardening, IIRC. That is, having areas of higher and lower hardness, not cost savings.

Many "san mai" knives are actually warikomi construction. Shun knives, for example. The difference is that san mai really is sandwich construction, so the core is exposed on the spine. You can see this with some Japanese gyutos like Teruysa Fujiwara. Warikomi is like a sub/hero/grinder/torpedo/etc or hot dog, the outer layer wrapped around the core, leaving the spine covered.
The difference comes into play with maintenance, since the spine of a carbon steel san mai knife will need to be dried, oiled, and inspected for rust.
 
I tend too like them as I own a few Fallknivens and have no complaints. I ran across a destruction video some time back and that old A1 he tested was tough and while the pointy tip did break off, the blade itself was broken in half finally but still held together by the outer core. The guy testing the A1 said this is one tough son of a bi%&#. I'm still waiting for someone to put a 3V core in a laminated blade that would be the best of both worlds possibly.
 
I have a Helle Dokka with a laminated blade. This is the most expensive knife I own at $150. The outer stainless is similar to the stainless steel used in kitchen flatware, which is quite tough and corrosion resistant. The harder core holds a great edge. While it is not the knife for every occasion, I use it a lot and I have not regretted a single penny I spent on that knife.
 
Ourorboros said:
Goes back thousands of years. In recent history, until energy became cheaper and therefore steel costs went down this was also used as a cost saving measure, with the higher carbon content steel in the middle. I believe Doc Holiday's knife was made this way. Cheaper steel was used for the outer layers, holding down costs.
Similar results can be achieved through differential hardening, IIRC. That is, having areas of higher and lower hardness, not cost savings.

Many "san mai" knives are actually warikomi construction. Shun knives, for example. The difference is that san mai really is sandwich construction, so the core is exposed on the spine. You can see this with some Japanese gyutos like Teruysa Fujiwara. Warikomi is like a sub/hero/grinder/torpedo/etc or hot dog, the outer layer wrapped around the core, leaving the spine covered.
The difference comes into play with maintenance, since the spine of a carbon steel san mai knife will need to be dried, oiled, and inspected for rust.
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Great post, thanks.

Historically Europeans didn't need to bother with fancy smanchy metal fabrication like the Japanese did because Europeans invented better steel that didn't all that work then or now.
 
marcinek said:
I believe katanas were constructed similarly.
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Very true and didn't even think of that one. Laminated steel in a knife makes a lot more sense if you look at it in that aspect.
d762nato said:
I tend too like them as I own a few Fallknivens and have no complaints. I ran across a destruction video some time back and that old A1 he tested was tough and while the pointy tip did break off, the blade itself was broken in half finally but still held together by the outer core. The guy testing the A1 said this is one tough son of a bi%&#. I'm still waiting for someone to put a 3V core in a laminated blade that would be the best of both worlds possibly.
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I completely agree! A 3v core in a laminated blade would be really awesome. 3v toughness with more rust resistance. Although 3v is already awesome on its own and that I reckon is why they haven't used it for this purpose. That and it would probably make the production costs and knife itself extremely expensive.
 
While its still pretty decent steel, I personally think the Current San Mai offerings from Cold Steel are nice for the collector aspect. Its a great chance for people to get a hold of new versions of the coveted San Mai Tantos and such. But in reality, I think the 3v versions of the same knives are superior and ironically sometimes cheaper than their San Mai counterparts if you shop at the right places.
 
AshesFall said:
Very true and didn't even think of that one. Laminated steel in a knife makes a lot more sense if you look at it in that aspect.
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You are missing the point. Laminated steel doesn't make sense because katanas used it. Katanas used laminated steel because it made sense.

It seems you pose topics and open threads to start debate, and that's cool...but there's really no debate on how laminated steel functions or what it brings to knife construction.
 
AshesFall said:
I completely agree! A 3v core in a laminated blade would be really awesome. 3v toughness with more rust resistance. Although 3v is already awesome on its own and that I reckon is why they haven't used it for this purpose. That and it would probably make the production costs and knife itself extremely expensive.
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The tough steel is not used in the core of a laminated steel.
 
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