Saw review: Stanley, Tashiro, & Walmart cheapo

[RokJok]

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Stanley model 15-333 folding construction saw
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Length open: 13-1/4"
Length closed: 7 -7/8"
Standard blade length: 5" tip to front of clamp
Weight with blade: 6.5 ounces
Max width across handle: 1-1/8"
Max blade length to close: 8-3/4"
Max width closed (back of handle to blade lock button): 2"
Blades: Accepts standard jigsaw and reciprocating (recip) saw blades available at home centers, hardware stores, tool vendors, etc. Jigsaw and recip saw blades have varying tpi counts: coarser for cutting wood and finer for metal cutting. The standard Stanley blade that comes with the saw is 10.5 teeth-per-inch (tpi). I also used a Vermont American 6 tpi (5-1/4" cutting edge) and Skil original model "The Ugly" 5 tpi (8.5" cutting edge) recip saw blades. Gullet depth between the teeth varies on the Skil Ugly blade to help clear sawdust.Price: Stanley model 15-333 saw is about $10 w standard fine-toothed blade. Vermont American blade was $1.14 each at Home Depot. Skil Ugly recip blades are about $3 each in a 5-pack at Home Depot. FWIW, watch garage sales and flea markets for sawblades. I've gotten Lenox bi-metal recip saw blades (IMHO the best recip blades out there) 10-12" long for a few dollars per 5-pack.

Construction, Handle, & Ergonomics:
- Injection molded plastic handle is large & blocky for my small hands. I can stack both of my hands on the handle, albeit snugly.
- While the sides and top of the handle are flat, the edges are broadly radiused so the transitional corners don't cut into your hands.
- Molded-in grooves on handle offer decent purchase without being overly aggressive. They are properly oriented for a "cut on the pull stroke" type of saw.
- Handle's semi-pistol-grip shape is fairly comfortable
- Slot along spine of handle where the two halves meet has flashing ridge (from molding process) that is fairly noticable.
- Plastic locking button/slider
Closing & Locking Mechanism:
- Does not lock blade in closed position.
- Protruding screw made closing stiff until it wore a small groove in handle material near pivot. The groove does not endanger the integrity of handle or pivot.
- Some vertical lock wobble in the locked open position. There is also some blade play within the slot of the lock block.
Blade Changing:
- Need a screwdriver to change blade
- Very tiny pan-head phillips screw (#6 x 5/16" long x 24 thread) holding the blade on is not captive and would be insufferably easy to lose, especially with cold fingers or trembling hands. Definitely carry some spare screws.
- The fine threads on this screw are easier to cross-thread and strip out than coarse ones. On the positive side, the finer threads offer better grip by offering finer increments of pressure as the screw is tightened and less inclination for the screw to back out under pressure.
- The threaded clamping plate that the screw snugs up (to lock the blade in place in the machined holding block) is captive in the handle and won't fall out with the screw removed, which is a very good design idea.
Carrying Convenience:
- Although it's shorter than the Tashiro saw, the Stanley feels bulky due to it fatter overall diameter.
- For the ounce-counters in the crowd, it weighs about half as much as the Tashiro saw, which is a good feature.
Extra Pluses:
- Storage slot in handle for extra blades, maybe as many as three or four.
- Made in the USA if that's important to you.

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Tashiro's Zeta Brand Pocket Saw
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Length open: 18-3/4"
Length closed: 10-1/4"
Standard blade length: 8-3/4" tip to handle
Weight with blade: 14 ounces
Max width across handle: 7/8"
Max blade length to close: 8-3/4"
Max width closed (back of handle to lock flange): 2-1/4"
Blades: 11 tpi standard blade. Other blades that fit it range from about 9 tpi to 22 tpi. Zeta brand blades are available from www.tashirohardware.com, Rockler Woodworking catalog & stores, and some hardware stores (Hardwick & Sons in Seattle carries Zeta brand saws & blades). Rockler stocks the finer-toothed models for dried lumber vs the coarse-toothed ones for green wood. They didn't have the standard Pocket Saw 11 tpi blade at the Rockler store I visited, only about 14 tpi and higher tooth count blades.
Price: about $30 + shipping for folding handle & one blade from Tashiro Hardware. http://www.tashirohardware.com/

Construction, Handle, & Ergonomics:
- Good fit & finish to the molded plastic and rubber handle materials.
- Ball detent rotating hub gives distinct 10-degree increments of rotation. I've found that the eccentric cam locking flipper will not lock the blade in-between the increments, because the cam does not have enough room to reach the "closed" position when the ball is riding on the plate between the holes.
- For my small hands, the diameter of the rubber handle section is quite comfortable.
- The handle is long enough for me to stack my hands on the handle (traditional double-handed ryoba saw technique)
Closing & Locking Mechanism:
- Very secure locking mechanism.
- Locking flipper has enough bearing surface to be relatively comfortable locking & unlocking the mechanism.
Blade Changing:
- No tools needed. The blades are friction-fitted into the rotating blade holder.
- Blade changing is pretty easily done. Tashiro recommends rapping the back of the blade out toward the tip to knock the blade out of the holder. However, I can remove & reinsert the blades by hand, although my hand tends to get chewed on a bit by the teeth when I do that.
Carrying Convenience:
- The closed length of about 10" coupled with the sleek handle, make this a very easy saw to stash in a day- or hydro-pack.
- Sleek rounded handle is easily pocketed while climbing up & down ladders or in the shop.
- The lanyard hole is about 3/4"x3/8" so it is big enough to easily hang on a nail or thread it with paracord.
Extra Pluses:
- Appears to be quite resistant to weather damage. Cliff Stamp inadvertantly left his outside through a snowfall and, when he came back to it in a few days, the light staining on the blade easily cleaned off with a Scotchbrite pad and there was apparently no damage to the closing mechanism.

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World Multinational camping saw
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Length overall: 17-1/4"
Blade length: 9-1/4" along the cutting edge
Weight without sheath: 8.25 ounces
Max width across handle: 1.25" at butt of handle, 1-1/16" across thumb-pad
Max width: 4.5" due to drop of the handle
Blades: 7 tpi
Price: IIRC about $9 with sheath in Walmart hunting/camping section

Construction, Handle, & Ergonomics:
- Pistol-grip with pinky-hook shape of handle is both comfortable and secure.
- Rubber ridges on handle squish down for a bit more comfort.
- Flat thumb pad on top of handle provides very nice bearing surface for applying more downward torque to the blade when you want it to dig harder into the material being cut.
Closing & Locking Mechanism:
- N/A. This is a fixed-blade saw.
Blade Changing:
- Could be easily done with a #2 phillips or 1/4" flat-tip screwdriver, if you could find a blade whose mounting holes matched those of the handle
- At the saw's low price, changing blades is pretty much a wash. It's probably almost as cheap to just buy a new saw.
Carrying Convenience:
- Ambidextrous semi-swinger type sheath.
- Sheath has both belt slots and generously large nail-hanging hole
- While not made of bombproof weight plasitc, the sheath is sturdy enough for belt wear, as well as throwing in the toolbox, truckbed, car trunk, etc
Extra Pluses:
- Cheap enough to replace that you wouldn't worry about abusing or losing it
- Sheath has yellow plastic rollers to keep sawteeth from chewing at the lip of the sheath as the saw is inserted & extracted from the sheath.

 

[RokJok]

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Cutting Performance & Functionality Testing:
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To test the cutting of the various saws and blades I cut sections off a couple of old wooden chopsticks (to simulate a small pencil-size branch), cut slices off the end of a pine 2x4, and sliced off the end of a oval laurel branch that was about 2" on the minor axis and 3" on the major axis. The laurel branch had dried & weathered for a year or more, so the inside was quite dry. But the outside was somewhat soggy from the seasonal rain we've been having for the last few weeks. To a large degree, the results were pretty much what you'd expect simply looking at how coarse or fine the teeth of the blades are, with a notable exception outlined below.

Chopstick cutting:
Abbreviations: Skil Ugly 5 tpi blade (SU), Vermont American 6 tpi blade (VA), Stanley standard 10.5 tpi (SS), Tashiro Pocket Saw 11 tpi blade (PS), World Multinational 7 tpi blade (WM)

- As you would expect, on so small a diameter cutting piece the coarse toothed SU and VA blades didn't want to smoothly start the cut. They jumped around on the surface even when very light pressure was exerted on the blade and I tried to steady the blade with the ball of my thumb. Once they had scratched their way into the chopstick, they still cut very raggedly & unevenly. They are simply too coarse-toothed for such fine cutting. I suspect these blades would not make smooth-edged notches when fabricating snares.
- The surprise in this cutting was the finer-toothed SS blade, which one would expect to cut pretty smoothly on the chopstick due to its higher tooth count and shallow gullets between the teeth. But it also had a tough time starting the cut and cut almost as unevenly as the much coarser-toothed blades. I determined that this was due to the "rake" of the teeth and the high degree of sharpness on the point of the teeth causing the teeth to dig in aggressively, even with light pressure. The rake is the angle at which the tooth is tilted relative to the long axis of the blade (running from tip to tang). If you look in the pictures, you'll see that the VA & SS blades have a high degree of rake (i.e. are strongly pointed back toward the tang of the blade), while the PS & WM blades have very very little rake and the SU recip blade appears to have none (i.e. the teeth are at a 90-degree angle to the long axis of the blade & point straight down).
- The PS blade was the smoothest of the blades in this small diameter cutting. Its relatively high 11 tpi tooth density and the flat-topped tooth geometry allowed the blade to slide pretty smoothly along the small-radius edge of the chopsticks. That flat-topped geometry comes from the fact the PS & WM teeth are formed with three grinds, instead of two as found on the SS, SU, & VA blades. The third grind (which sloped down from the cutting edge of the tooth down into the inside of the tooth) makes the point of the teeth less aggressive than the more needle-like points on the two-grind teeth.
- Once it had started the cut, the PS blade also continued the cut through the chopstick with the smoothest cutting action and effort, compared to the other blades.
- While the WM has the three-grind teeth to make the cutting smoother, the low tooth density caused problems for it on such small diameter cutting. The teeth are spaced far enough apart that individual teeth snagged the chopstick because no more than one or two of the teeth were bearing on the cut surface at a time.

2x4 cutting:
Abbreviations: Skil Ugly 5 tpi blade (SU), Vermont American 6 tpi blade (VA), Stanley standard 10.5 tpi (SS), Tashiro Pocket Saw 11 tpi blade (PS), World Multinational 7 tpi blade (WM)

- The start of cutting here pretty much matched the chopstick cutting, since cutting into the 1/8" radius put on 2x4 stud material corners is pretty much the same as cutting into the outside diameter of the chopstick. For the coarser toothed or more aggressive blades (everything but the PS blade) if I laid the cutting edge of the blade flat along the surface of the lumber and started the cut by simply making a groove all across the face, they of course started much smoother than using the traditional hand-sawing technique of cutting into a corner of the lumber at about a 30- to 45-degree angle. Otherwise they were pretty uneven & jumpy on starting the cut.
- The smoothness of the cut face cutting off a slice of the 2x4 was pretty much in line with the tooth count & geometry, from roughest to smoothest as near I could tell: SU, VA, SS, WM, PS.
- The speed with which the cuts were made was as you'd expect based on lower tooth counts cutting faster than the more closely spaced teeth. So the SU with it's wide-spread teeth and deep gullets cut appreciably faster & easier through the 2x4 than the finer-toothed & shallower-gulleted SS.
- However, the PS blade cuts surprisingly quickly and easily through this dried lumber due to the shallow grind angles giving its cutting surfaces very sharp edges and the gullets being big enough to clear the sawdust from the cut before the gullets could clog up. Also, the PS blade yielded by a huge degree the smoothest cut surfaces on all the materials cut. For making a snare trigger that doesn't hang up when you want it to slide free, the Tashiro saw is a LOT better than the other saws & blades tested.

2"x3" oval laurel branch cutting:
Abbreviations: Skil Ugly 5 tpi blade (SU), Vermont American 6 tpi blade (VA), Stanley standard 10.5 tpi (SS), Tashiro Pocket Saw 11 tpi blade (PS), World Multinational 7 tpi blade (WM)

- The cutting of this branch was in line with the 2x4 cutting. The coarser toothed blades cut quicker & rougher, while the finer toothed blades cut slower and left relatively smoother cut faces.
- The larger bearing surface at the start of the cut eliminated the difficulty beginning the cut experienced by the coarse toothed blades on the chopstick and 2x4.
- As on the 2x4, the PS blade cut surprisingly quickly for having an 11 tpi tooth density and left a cut face much smoother than the other blades.

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Bottom Line:
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- Each of these saws has its positive attributes: cheap price to buy it, versatile multi-blade selection, easy blade changes, portably foldable, or yielding smooth cut faces. But no one saw is all of these things at once.
- If you've read this far down, you've probably figured out that the Tashiro Pocket Saw is still my favorite carry-about saw, in spite of the fact it costs three times as much as the other saws.
- The smoothness & quickness of cutting with the Pocket Saw, coupled with its smoothly rounded shape that pops into a pocket easily and the results of Cliff's snowstorm "durability testing" of it, makes it well worth the $30 asking price in my opinion. The smoothness of the cut you can get on dimension lumber (like the 2x4) with its 11 tpi blade really has to be experienced to be believed.
- Quality costs, but is usually cheaper in the long run. Tashiro's Pocket Saw is a quality product. The quality shows in the results it gives, the precision of its construction and adjustment, and the ease of using it.

 

[RokJok]

Ooops!! I let my Gold BFC membership lapse, so can't post pics here until I renew it. In the meantime...

Here's a shot of what was tested. From top to bottom is Skil Ugly recip blade, Stanley 15-333 saw with standard blade, Vermont American blade inside crook of Stanley handle & blade, and Tashiro pocket saw with its standard blade.

Here's a picture of the relative size of the kerfs each blade made in the laurel branch. From left to right is Skil Ugly, Vermont American, Stanley standard blade, Tashiro pocket saw, and Worldmaster International from Walmart.

Here's the tangs & teeth pattern of a few blades. From top down is Tashiro pocket saw blade, Vermont American, and Skil Ugly blades. Note the angled rake of the VA blade. The large U-shaped "finger" on the Tashiro blade hooks around the pivot pin of the rotating/locking mechanism. You can clearly see the discoloration from the induction hardening done to the teeth on the Skil Ugly blade to make them difficult to dull (same as hardening a knife's edge when the blade is differentially hardened).

 

[RokJok]

Here's a shot of the screw-side of the Stanley locking mechanism, followed by a shot from the threaded locking-plate side of the mechanism. On the screw-side shot you can see the machined-out hollow depression that helps hold the screw at least close to the hole when you are starting to insert the screw into the holder.

Here's a picture of the Tashiro Pocket Saw blade above the World Multinational blade.

A scan of the very comfortable World Multinational handle along with the top of the sheath.

A shot showing the oval thumb-pad atop the World Multinational handle.

 

[Daniel Koster]

nice write-up!!

Gonna have to check out the pocket saw now...

 

[frank k]

Very nice review!

I have been meaning to try out some different saws side by side, but so far I have been satisfied with the SAK saws for fine work and a couple of Corona Pruning saws for cutting larger wood - fast.



- Frank

 

[elnath]

Great review!

Do you have any experience with the Gerber/Fiskars folding saw? I don't have any experience with the ones on your test, but I have (and like) the Gerber and was hoping to compare it against the ones in your test--one obvious feature is stainless steel blades.....

thanks,

 

[tknife]

Excellent review, I feel like I was there myself!

 

[RokJok]

Elnath, Sorry, I don't have any experience with the Fiskars/Gerber folding saws. The ones I've seen at gun shows and have found doing a web search look like decent units for their prices. Given that their line offers a few different units, which model do you have: Fiskars 10" folding saw with wood handle, Gerber 7" Exchange-A-Blade, Gerber 6" Sport Saw (not actually a folder, but an "out the front" blade), or another model? What all do you use it for and is stashability in a pack part of your needs for the saw? All input is appreciated.

Frank K, Those Corona pruning saws are another brand that offers good performance at a cheap enough price. Unfortunately, I haven't succumbed to the impulse to snap one up when I've seen them in the gardening section of the local home center. Now how did I possibly resist the temptation to pick up yet another tool? I musta been sick or something.

 

[elnath]

I have the 7" Exchange Blade Saw. I've been carrying it when deer hunting the past few years and find that it works out pretty well for my use. It has a composite frame (probably Zytel or equiv) with inserts of rubber. It fits into a rather nice nylon sheath with a spare blade and fits comfortably in a jacket pocket. I have a wood blade and a bone blade. To be honest I've had very little experience with the wood blade, but the bone blade works great for field dressing, the handle is very non-slip, even when coated with blood, and the exchange feature makes it easy to take apart to clean out the gunk after folding it "dirty".

Last season I actually left my sheath knife home and took the saw and my large Sebenza all season. Turned out to be a good light combination!

I like it alot, but always look to improve--like I REALLY NEED more outdoor stuff....

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Very informative as always, the Tashiro Hardware is a standout. The ability to adjust the blade angle is a great feature which is very rare.

-Cliff

 

[RokJok]

Some clarifying information from Mr. Tashiro:

Zeta is my brand. Factory brand is Z-saw. "Pocket saw" is my trade mark. The Z-saw trade mark is "Orriko". Zeta-saws are enhanced Z-saws. I think you will agree that "Pocket saw" is easier to remember and has more meaning than "Orriko".

You will find the vertical cam lock on the "Pocket saw" is quick and easy to operate even with gloves. The horizontal cam lock on the "Orriko" is awkward and difficult to operate when wearing gloves.

 

[RokJok]

Impulse-hardened, replaceable blades have an extremely long edge life due to the high degree to which the tips of the teeth are hardened (more than 70 RC). They are more resistant to breakage than traditionally forged saws due to the relative soft Dozuki with Repl. Blades.

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Z-SAW Multi Folding Saw, 210
(NOTE: this is the Orriko with a horizontal locking flipper that Mr Tashiro referenced above)

Professional quality all-purpose saw for gardening and cutting dry wood. The teflon coated blade is adjustable in angle. Rubberized grip. Blade length 210 mm, overall l. 475 mm, thickn. 0.7 mm, tooth sp. 2.4 mm, 180 g.

No. 712741 € 32.50
Repl. blade No. 712841 € 12.50

http://www.anticsa.com/sierras_diversas.htm
slightly larger picture at: http://www.anticsa.com/Dick/Fotos/Sierras/Diversas/712741.JPG
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[Zip06]

Great review. This is just what the internet is all about. Thanks for sharing your comprehensive eval.